larryepage Loc: North Texas area

Before proceeding, I want to declare openly that I am about to ask a question which some may interpret as unnecessarily raising controversy or attempting to troll the group or provoke some of its members. Please be assured that is absolutely not my intent, and it is my hope that we can have something resembling an intelligent discussion around the topic. There are some specific elements involved, and I don't want to shy away from those. But please do not interpret them as provocation.

The thoughts behind this discussion arose as I was getting ready to do the latest firmware update for my D850. It was released in April, but I somehow missed it until yesterday. It apparently provides for improved operation with certain lenses. And no...it does not add the "Eye Focus" capability that many have been anxiously awaiting.

So the question is this...and I haven't been able to find a delicate way to ask it...for those who treasure "Manual" photography, exactly what are the boundaries of thta method of operation? And for the purposes of this discussion, let's please set aside the question of whether "Auto ISO" is or is not part of "manual exposure." It's been discussed thoroughly elsewhere without resolution. I'm passionate around my position on that subject and realize that others are equally passionate around their own, different, position.

BUT...it seems that many (and I mean many everywhere, not just here) who would never consider following anything other than manual exposure management would also never consider anything other than automatic camera focus. And preferably automatic camera focus that can identify, lock in on, and focus on the eye of their subject, whether human or animal. Why is the manual choice preferred in the one case, but the automatic choice is lusted after in the other case?

Now just for full disclosure here. I proudly use autofocus essentially all the time, except for night sky photography and a few other cases where autofocus falls short. I was initially quite concerned when some of my newest cameras no longer had an autofocus assist light. (Trust me...I learned that it's OK.) Because of some vision problems relating either from glaucoma or occupational exposure to intense light (my doctor and I don't agree on which), I shamelessly depend on autofocus. And yes, I use Program exposure mode a lot of the time also. It's just too good and too convenient if I select the correct metering pattern, and I am pretty shameless about that also.

Why do we think there is such a disparity in the acceptance of automatic exposure vs. autofocus, especially since various forms of automatic exposure have been around longer than autofocus? I am really interested in the responses here, especially if we can keep the discussion civil and thoughtful.

RichardTaylor Loc: Sydney, Australia

I just do what ever it takes to get the image I want.

MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama

I will just make a quick comment about your 2nd. to last paragraph. There is nothing wrong with P (Professional ) mode when you are just casually walking around and have to make a quick shot or miss it... Override with a pref. depending on what type of environment you are in and you should be ok. As to autofocus I shoot Olympus as well as others and really like the manual override for focus peaking... Not ALL the time perfectly accurate, but gives me a variety of captures should I focus stack in the future. Just a personal opinion and don't want to debate... As far as Manual is concerned let me say that lately I have been playing around with it and a FAINT glimmer of light has surfaced... Its an evolutionary thing.

photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA

"civil and thoughtful"? Well, that leaves me out!

I normally shoot in manual mode, but will use the other auto modes (using "P" instead of "Auto" because P stands for "Professional" -- not really, because I don't want the camera triggering the on-camera flash). I like using manual mode because I like controlling the photo. I will use Program mode when I need to get a shot in a second or two, like hiking and the deer is in your path. I use Aperture Priority mode when using ND filters. I will set the f/stop and let the camera choose the shutter speed. I seldom use Shutter priority and can't think of the last time I used it.

Quixdraw Loc: x

Think Sinatra "My Way" for each of us, whatever way that gets satisfying results.

JFCoupe Loc: Kent, Washington

I think this is an interesting question about manual exposure settings vs. auto focus use.

Personally, I have gone from an SLR in 1972 that was manual focus but did have a match needle metering system to help determine either shutter speed or aperture to Olympus EM1 MK ii today.

When I read that someone shoots full manual, I often wonder how they get to their shutter speed/aperture starting point. This is where I think aperture or shutter priority modes are a wonderful assist for most photographers (or P mode in some cases as well).

I occasionally will shift to manual focus and often shoot both a manual shot and an autofocus shot of the same image and seldom think that my manual focus is better. Macro shots maybe the exception here.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Hopefully, a simple observation will clarify things for you: Just because the word 'manual' occurs in both manual focus and manual exposure does not make 'manual' equal in these two unrelated context. Action sports and all forms of BIF photography would not exist today without AF. How you expose / meter impacts the final result for experienced photographers, but any level of experience can photograph moving subjects with today's AF-enabled cameras.

Big Yankee Fan

Thoughtful question and comments. At the risk of stating the obvious, some thoughts:

1. In film days ISO was always 'automatic' right? Depended upon the film put in the camera and the adjustments to the camera required to use it.

2. When I know things are happening quickly I use automatic features almost exclusively. Exceptions include airshows or outdoor concerts where I know I can play with manual features during multiple 'passes.'

3. Guess it boils down to, at least on occasion, trusting the camera's judgment more than my own.

Mike

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

I use 'P' mode a lot.
For wildlife, I often use what Pentax calls 'TAv' mode - I set shutter speed and aperture, and the camera sets ISO.

In both cases, I notice what the camera selects, then over-ride the settings, or use exposure control, if I am not comfortable with the results. Ultimately, I remain in control, but I have the camera do what it can. For me, the pleasure comes from the resulting photos, not from the process.

pquiggle Loc: Monterey Bay California

Could not agree more. Sometimes, especially for macro, that means everything manual, including focus. For landscapes it can be any combination of manual and automatic settings for exposure and focus depending on what I am trying to accomplish. If conditions are constantly changing and I want to be prepared, just in case, I'll leave it in a fully automatic mode. Most often I will select my shutter speed and aperture and allow the camera to select the ISO. I set the camera to do back button focus allow the autofocus system to do its work then compose the shot; sort of hybrid auto manual way of working. As Richard said, "just do what ever it takes" and don't worry about the labels.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

For the most part I use manual focus lenses and I usually use manual exposure. I have no objection to auto focus or auto exposure, and sometimes I use one or the other or both.

Photography is my hobby, I have no illusions, delusions, or desires of becoming a professional photographer. Nor do I have any ambitions of displaying my photos in a gallery setting. Sometimes I will share my pictures here or on Facebook.

I do photography for my own enjoyment, and, for me, part of that enjoyment comes from using manual focus and manual exposure. I do not "treasure" manual focus and manual exposure, I enjoy it. I don"t care what others do, it's none of my business. I just enjoy the results. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about what others do or say, just do what you like and have fun.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

In answer to your question about starting point in ME. I start out at ISO 100, 1/125, and f/8 then make adjustments as needed. That is just what I do. I'm not saying it's the best, or what anyone else should do.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

srt101fan

If your question is "why do diehard manual photographers that look down on automated shooting modes have no problem accepting automation when it comes to autofocus" then you haven't gotten any answers to your question.

You're not getting one from me either. That's because I'm not an "auto shooting mode is the only way to go" kinda guy and they're the only ones who can answer your questions.

I will say though, that for cameras like mine (Nikon D5300) manual focus is a lot harder than it was with my film cameras. Of course the eyes ain't as good as they used to be either......😡

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Go mirrorless and use the 10x zoom in the Electronic View Finder (EVF). You can manually focus better than ever imagined with film cameras.