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Grim 2 million milestone of American Covid-19 cases.
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Jun 12, 2020 07:22:03   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
chrissybabe wrote:
You Americans forget the difference between the US and the UK (and most other countries by the way). The UK is a single country with a single government and when it says to do something generally people do it. As it happens if the govt doesn't say the right things at the right time then you get chaos which they did.
Now the US is a collection of individual states which runs loosely as a federation under the US federal govt. So there are heaps of things where there is a distinct lack of clarity between who does what and why. eg you try and get a prescription filled in a different state than where it was issued. So you already have chaos built in.
And to add to that you have some issues in the constitution (freedom of speech etc) which complicates various responses.
So you have a central govt that maybe wants to do the right thing BUT you have so many other things working against that with an end result that it is impossible for anybody to act for the greater good. Trump is just a side issue and not even worth discussing in this context. I do have to add that I feel you also have a lot of people who are incapable of understanding what the greater good even is. Hence wandering about without masks or social distancing is a selfish response to the greater good. And who am I to criticize any of you if you are determined to commit suicide or even moving the US into an also ran position.
This virus is real. It can and does kill you. If you recover you have a good chance that you will end up with lifetime health issues. And still you wander about as if nothing was going on.
And before anybody gets stuck into me I do feel for the issues you have with police brutality. This is an ongoing problem, it has been there for decades, and nobody has yet decided to actual fix it. But unfortunately now is not the time to attempt it. In 50 years time they will look back (not that this is any issue for all those currently participating in this craziness because you will all be dead) but it sure as hell will be an issue for your grandchildren. They will wonder what on earth were those old bastards even thinking since they helped screw up such a calamitous time.
You Americans forget the difference between the US... (show quote)



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Jun 12, 2020 07:30:09   #
ChazT Loc: Florida
 
Retired CPO wrote:
How has PRESIDENT Trump failed? Has he failed to develop a vaccine? I thought the doctors were supposed to do that. Has he failed to bring the economy back from the brink? Look at the stock reports.
People are dying? Every one who has been born will die. PRESIDENT Trump is supposed to stop that?
Get a grip!


Not picking a side. Just answering your questions. He does not develop vaccine but does provide funding for research. The economy was not on the brink when he took office. Stock reports you mention will show that the brink was when George W left office. Yes, everyone dies. We have doctors and medical researchers that try to extend life. That’s why we have them. Right now they recommend wearing masks in public to help Stop the spread and extend life until a vaccine is developed. We were both in the military. Weren’t we both taught to lead by example?

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Jun 12, 2020 07:51:15   #
2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond
 
chrissybabe wrote:
You Americans forget the difference between the US and the UK (and most other countries by the way). The UK is a single country with a single government and when it says to do something generally people do it. As it happens if the govt doesn't say the right things at the right time then you get chaos which they did.
Now the US is a collection of individual states which runs loosely as a federation under the US federal govt. So there are heaps of things where there is a distinct lack of clarity between who does what and why. eg you try and get a prescription filled in a different state than where it was issued. So you already have chaos built in.
And to add to that you have some issues in the constitution (freedom of speech etc) which complicates various responses.
So you have a central govt that maybe wants to do the right thing BUT you have so many other things working against that with an end result that it is impossible for anybody to act for the greater good. Trump is just a side issue and not even worth discussing in this context. I do have to add that I feel you also have a lot of people who are incapable of understanding what the greater good even is. Hence wandering about without masks or social distancing is a selfish response to the greater good. And who am I to criticize any of you if you are determined to commit suicide or even moving the US into an also ran position.
This virus is real. It can and does kill you. If you recover you have a good chance that you will end up with lifetime health issues. And still you wander about as if nothing was going on.
And before anybody gets stuck into me I do feel for the issues you have with police brutality. This is an ongoing problem, it has been there for decades, and nobody has yet decided to actual fix it. But unfortunately now is not the time to attempt it. In 50 years time they will look back (not that this is any issue for all those currently participating in this craziness because you will all be dead) but it sure as hell will be an issue for your grandchildren. They will wonder what on earth were those old bastards even thinking since they helped screw up such a calamitous time.
You Americans forget the difference between the US... (show quote)


Good assessment of the problems were are experiencing here in the U.S. If someone asked if you could boil it down to as few words as possible, my vote would be for: Too many liberal lawyers and too many unions. I'm sure there would be a firestorm of disagreement with my opinion, but that's the way I've viewed it over 77 years. Lawyers should NOT be in political office as to my way of thinking it's conflict of interests and the unions have the power to keep people in their jobs who absolutely do not belong there.

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Jun 12, 2020 08:13:59   #
raymondh Loc: Walker, MI
 
machia wrote:
Looking at the Democrat response to the protests and how they want money to bailout all their failed cities under the guise of virus bailout money, how can anyone criticize Trump? In fact if you follow the time line, he responded weeks before to this virus by enacting a travel ban while the Democrats encouraged social get togethers. The Democrats have the media in their pocket however, so many stories of their failures get buried while Trump is put under a microscope. The hypocrisy of this New Democrat Party and the biased Leftist media is incredible.
Looking at the Democrat response to the protests a... (show quote)



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Jun 12, 2020 08:16:58   #
David Martin Loc: Cary, NC
 
f8lee wrote:
Well, remember that the number of cases statistic is highly suspect as well....first, the issue of a patient with obesity and heart failure who dies and happens to have Covid is tallied as a "Covid death" (in order for the hospital to get the $13K payment from medicare).

You are wrong on both counts:

1. A patient with obesity and heart failure would likely still be alive had he not contracted Covid.

2. Covid patients cost more to care for. Special isolation, more PPE, etc. The hospital gets the extra $13K if the patient has Covid, and $39K if they have Covid and require a mechanical ventilator. Importantly, Covid does not have to be the cause of death for hospitals to get the extra $$. The patient just has to test positive for Covid. So the incentive is to list Covid as a diagnosis on the bill sent to Medicare, not to list Covid as the cause of death. Billing Medicare requires listing the diagnoses, not listing the cause of death.

Something else for you to consider: doctors have learned that mechanical ventilation is not necessarily the best treatment for all cases of Covid-related respiratory failure, so they try to avoid using a ventilator. If your cynical view were true, they'd put everyone on a vent just so the hospital gets the extra $39K.

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Jun 12, 2020 08:48:30   #
LittleRed
 
Why in the hell is this crap still on chat and not in the attic. I’ve posted jokes less political that were sent there. Just asking !?!?

LittleRed (Ron)

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Jun 12, 2020 08:57:26   #
Toby
 
ChazT wrote:
Not picking a side. Just answering your questions. He does not develop vaccine but does provide funding for research. The economy was not on the brink when he took office. Stock reports you mention will show that the brink was when George W left office. Yes, everyone dies. We have doctors and medical researchers that try to extend life. That’s why we have them. Right now they recommend wearing masks in public to help Stop the spread and extend life until a vaccine is developed. We were both in the military. Weren’t we both taught to lead by example?
Not picking a side. Just answering your questions.... (show quote)


Well said

Reply
 
 
Jun 12, 2020 10:06:43   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
Retired CPO wrote:
How has PRESIDENT Trump failed? Has he failed to develop a vaccine? I thought the doctors were supposed to do that. Has he failed to bring the economy back from the brink? Look at the stock reports.
People are dying? Every one who has been born will die. PRESIDENT Trump is supposed to stop that?
Get a grip!


What are you a retired CEO of? A garage sale conglomeration?
Trump fires medical experts he hired after their findings disagree with his agenda.
He was a major factor in destroying the economy; if he keeps his hands off and mouth shut it'll help
Wall Street ain't Main Street. Basically a bunch of rich people playing poker on an infinite horse race.
Covid kills @ 2% of the 60% that got sick. Folk play games with the numbers that go into that 60%. But that doesn't change the reality. Trump hasn't done anything real to help. Pence is a figurehead to divert attention.
Bill Nye can't save you.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 10:06:55   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
worldometer is a great site. Thanks for sharing.

Looking at the number of Covid-19 deaths divided by the over 2 million reported cases in the USA, we have a 5.5% mortality - 1 person in every 20 who get Covid-19 are dying. Not 0.001% of cases like the flu.

And some countries are making this political - stopping reporting of statistics, etc. Afraid of the truth?


Worldometer is a great site but not totally accurate. In the US, at least some areas are clearly not reporting the number of recovered patients accurately as folks are not removed. The number of deaths reported includes a certain number ( Tens of percents) of individuals who did not die of COVID. There is a financial incentive to record the death as COVID. The total number of cases is also smaller than the actual number as people with no or minor symptoms have largely not be tested. ( nor will they ever be) It will be a few years before a reasonable estimate can be made. In the US and on a per capita bases COVID deaths are about 50% of that in the 1969 flu epidemic. In 1969 there was no social distancing at Woodstock. I was riding public transportation to my last year of High School. Drunks would sometimes puke on your shoes and my high school had 10,000 students.

Best estimates for the death rate from COVID is in the very low tenths of one percent. (You can't get this info from Worldometer)

To keep all in perspective 17 million globally die of infectious diseases each year without notice. The overall number of deaths in Sweden so far this year is slightly below the number observed over the same period in recent years.

The hysteria must stop. Such hysteria leads to insanity (like Howard Hughes) and angry mobs. Oh! I guess the mobs are already here. Will they come for you next?

Waiting to be safe = Never.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 10:12:05   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
Harry0 wrote:
What are you a retired CEO of? A garage sale conglomeration?
Trump fires medical experts he hired after their findings disagree with his agenda.
He was a major factor in destroying the economy; if he keeps his hands off and mouth shut it'll help
Wall Street ain't Main Street. Basically a bunch of rich people playing poker on an infinite horse race.
Covid kills @ 2% of the 60% that got sick. Folk play games with the numbers that go into that 60%. But that doesn't change the reality. Trump hasn't done anything real to help. Pence is a figurehead to divert attention.
Bill Nye can't save you.
What are you a retired CEO of? A garage sale congl... (show quote)


Harry go take a couple of Valiums and take a nap. Maybe this will clear your brain.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 10:17:59   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
chrissybabe wrote:
You Americans forget the difference between the US and the UK (and most other countries by the way)....
...

Another large part of the equation that many people don't grasp is the different mindset in each country.
They never include or consider that...

Reply
 
 
Jun 12, 2020 10:33:52   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
chrissybabe wrote:
You Americans forget the difference between the US and the UK (and most other countries by the way). The UK is a single country with a single government and when it says to do something generally people do it. As it happens if the govt doesn't say the right things at the right time then you get chaos which they did.
Now the US is a collection of individual states which runs loosely as a federation under the US federal govt. So there are heaps of things where there is a distinct lack of clarity between who does what and why. eg you try and get a prescription filled in a different state than where it was issued. So you already have chaos built in.
And to add to that you have some issues in the constitution (freedom of speech etc) which complicates various responses.
So you have a central govt that maybe wants to do the right thing BUT you have so many other things working against that with an end result that it is impossible for anybody to act for the greater good. Trump is just a side issue and not even worth discussing in this context. I do have to add that I feel you also have a lot of people who are incapable of understanding what the greater good even is. Hence wandering about without masks or social distancing is a selfish response to the greater good. And who am I to criticize any of you if you are determined to commit suicide or even moving the US into an also ran position.
This virus is real. It can and does kill you. If you recover you have a good chance that you will end up with lifetime health issues. And still you wander about as if nothing was going on.
And before anybody gets stuck into me I do feel for the issues you have with police brutality. This is an ongoing problem, it has been there for decades, and nobody has yet decided to actual fix it. But unfortunately now is not the time to attempt it. In 50 years time they will look back (not that this is any issue for all those currently participating in this craziness because you will all be dead) but it sure as hell will be an issue for your grandchildren. They will wonder what on earth were those old bastards even thinking since they helped screw up such a calamitous time.
You Americans forget the difference between the US... (show quote)


You know, it always surprises me, although I guess it shouldn't, that foreigners think they have the right to climb up a ladder and peer over the fence into the greatest nation the world has ever known and start criticizing us.
Thanks for your input, now sit down and shut up. I suppose your native Maori people have never experienced "police brutality"? You've closed your borders so you have done pretty well with the virus situation. If we were a puissant country surrounded on all sides by a thousand miles of water and with a tiny population we would have done better too. What about your economy after being closed to the rest of the world for what, months? A year?
The "built in" chaos is part of what makes us the great nation we are. As far as "free speech" complicating things??? Are you suggesting we would be better off with free speech not being in the constitution? We should all just shut up and let the kings and queens dictate to us?
You think we should be concerned about being reduced to an also ran? Yes, we are. Are you concerned about being a NEVER ran and a never attempted to run?
Yes we have a significant sub-set of our population who are incapable of recognizing the severity of this virus situation. And we have another significant sub-set of our population who run around in circles like a chicken with it's head chopped of and cry "the sky is falling" at every glitch in their daily lives. Fortunately, the rest of the population takes a calm, measured approach to each crisis that comes around and finds a way around, over, under or through it. Can you say that about your tiny, remote, almost forgotten country? Which IS beautiful, by the way. I was there in 2017. And you didn't hear a whisper of criticism from me.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 10:46:43   #
tom hughes Loc: Phila Pa
 
The Swine Flu, 2009/10 infected 60.8 million Americans and an estimated 85,000 deaths. Not a single thing shut down, not one mask in sight. It originated in Mexico, Obama never even closed the border. Covid 19, less than 1 percent mortality rate. The shut downs a scam.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 10:58:31   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
Harry0 wrote:
What are you a retired CEO of? A garage sale conglomeration?
Trump fires medical experts he hired after their findings disagree with his agenda.
He was a major factor in destroying the economy; if he keeps his hands off and mouth shut it'll help
Wall Street ain't Main Street. Basically a bunch of rich people playing poker on an infinite horse race.
Covid kills @ 2% of the 60% that got sick. Folk play games with the numbers that go into that 60%. But that doesn't change the reality. Trump hasn't done anything real to help. Pence is a figurehead to divert attention.
Bill Nye can't save you.
What are you a retired CEO of? A garage sale congl... (show quote)


Are you a substandard reader as well as a substandard thinker? I'm a retired Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy. I spent 20 years keeping the electronics working on the jet aircraft that kept you safe at night. Where do you get CEO out of that? I think you need to catch a good whiff out of the O2 tank that you should be carrying around with you. It might clear your head a bit.
Do you mean PRESIDENT Trump hasn't gotten his hands dirty working on a vaccine? I guess he should have gone to medical school to be qualified to act as PRESIDENT of the U.S.
Like it or not, Wall Street IS the economy and we would all be dead without it.
Surprisingly, we agree on ONE point. I wish PRESIDENT Trump would divorce himself from twitter. It often back fires on him in the public eye. BUT, that's who he is and the way he does business. Who are you and I to expect him to change that?
And yes, he had my vote last time and he has it again this time around. And if it were possible and if he continues his good work I would vote for him a third time. But WAIT, he's a Republican. It's the demoncrats who cheat and scheme and lie and steal on election day.

Reply
Jun 12, 2020 11:03:31   #
2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond
 
Retired CPO wrote:
Are you a substandard reader as well as a substandard thinker? I'm a retired Chief Petty Officer in the United States Navy. I spent 20 years keeping the electronics working on the jet aircraft that kept you safe at night. Where do you get CEO out of that? I think you need to catch a good whiff out of the O2 tank that you should be carrying around with you. It might clear your head a bit.
Do you mean PRESIDENT Trump hasn't gotten his hands dirty working on a vaccine? I guess he should have gone to medical school to be qualified to act as PRESIDENT of the U.S.
Like it or not, Wall Street IS the economy and we would all be dead without it.
Surprisingly, we agree on ONE point. I wish PRESIDENT Trump would divorce himself from twitter. It often back fires on him in the public eye. BUT, that's who he is and the way he does business. Who are you and I to expect him to change that?
And yes, he had my vote last time and he has it again this time around. And if it were possible and if he continues his good work I would vote for him a third time. But WAIT, he's a Republican. It's the demoncrats who cheat and scheme and lie and steal on election day.
Are you a substandard reader as well as a substand... (show quote)


Thank you for your service AND your comeback!

Reply
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