docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado

yeah well only the organisms that most need to evolve are doing it very very, and very slowly.........US

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

We don't need to evolve as a species. We just need to grow up.

mericando Loc: NASHVILLE TN

Dachs- the reason why the other religions were not mentioned is this forum started as letting folks know the difference between Christianity and the Mormon faith of the presidential candidate Mitt Romney. It was not started as an evolution vs creation it was an explanation of how the Mormon faith is not a true Christian faith. Somehow someone started the evolution debate and the forum got completely off track from the original purpose.

NGC--No one has ever said the things can't mutate - but when was the last time the human being evolved. Thousands of years has past, our clothes, means of transportation, living, parchment scrolls into computers, iphone, tables, medicine, etc.have changed, But humans have not evolved into another species, other forms, nor to my knowledge, elephants, tigers, dogs, cats, etc. There are different breeds of animals, and with humans there are different races, color of hair,eyes, body shapes, shape of eyes,noses, mouth etc. But look back as far as there are paintings of other humans, and you will see the basic form and anatomies are the same as today. But you and I are so far apart in beliefs, that no matter what I or others present we are all foolish and our talk is all crap (some crap from the creationist...) Don't think I've ever had the pleasure of communicating with such a superior human being that knows all and anyone who believes different is let's see in the time I've been communication of this subject our view is bonkers, stupid, full of crap, fairy tales, kindergarten,our view are "arguments from ignorance" and because the scientific books that I have read, both from believers and non-believers can't be taken serious because they state the possibility of creation and the one's you study don't so my scientist regardless of their "pedigree" in this particular area can't be taken seriously. Me really thinks I need to stop reading this forum, I've said it several times, because I in no way am of the superior intellect of a person such as you, and instead of us having just some discussion, you continue to belittle our beliefs and that just makes my normally low blood pressure evolve into a higher category which is not good : ) I do think it is sorta funny how all of us that have spoken our position on faith, have done so without belittling you, calling your view ignorant, crap, fairy tales, etc etc.
Is your belief or self esteem so low that you have to engage in belittling others that don't believe as you do in this way? Every since this topic changed from the original intent of the forum your responses have always reminded me of how the aristocrats of the 1700 and 1800s looked down their noses at the working class.
We have and do hold firm in our belief in God, Christ and the Holy Spirit and are enjoying this wonderful world He created and spending eternity in the new world which will be a perfect world.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Happy to have been of service then. You do understand that most of your post was made up of exactly what you seem to be accusing me of doing. It was ad hominem from start to finish.

But, disregarding that... what makes you think humans are not evolving? We are a relatively new species, H. sapiens, that did not exist more than about 200,000 years ago. The big question now is, out of all the rapidly expanding family of Homo, which is our direct ancestor. That question has yet to be answered to everyone's satisfaction.

See, the problem with not knowing anything about evolution, your expectations are screwy. You apparently think of evolution solely in terms of speciation events while, as I've said several times already, evolution is the change in allele frequency of a gene over time. And our genes are changing allele frequency with great rapidity.

You really should pick up a book or two on the subject.

You might also use blank lines. Facing a monolithic block of text like yours isn't a lot of fun to read.

Always happy to be of some help.

mericando Loc: NASHVILLE TN

Dachs-

mericando Loc: NASHVILLE TN

Dachs-

NGC--

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

The most coherent post you've yet made! Congratulations.

docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado

gotta disagree with you there. Growing up is just a developmental stage often preceded by adolescence often followed by senility.

Nope - we too gotta evolve unless of course you believe we are the end result of a process called life - the best it can get?

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

We may very well be the end results of our particular form of life. Not due to evolution, but by our drowning in our own shit.

docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado

seems to me an intelligent critter would find a way to pull it's self out of it's own shit and quickly learn not to poop all over it's own parlor.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Never mind the big stuff - like the spent nuclear fuel rods that lay in cooling ponds around the country because no one can decide what to do with them - but we can't get people to stop throwing trash out of their car windows or treating the world like an ashtray.

It does not bode well for the future.

docrob Loc: Durango, Colorado

there is no choice really - we either evolve as a species or we fail.

dachs

and of course the kindest regards to you too.

ps I had forgotten this started with the Yanks' presidential thing, interesting side tracks though.

Go cheerfully

Sensei

No where in the bible is Paul called an Apostle.
Paul's conversion came about long after Chirst's death. He was at the time busy in the persecution of Christians
Everyone is entitled to their personal belief Maybe it should be kept personal.
Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove the evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat the fruit of a magical tree.

Makes perfect sense .
That someone believes this may run the country scares the hell out of me.
Maybe the bible should start with "Once upon a time" rather than "In the beginning"
Virgin birth is not unique and exclusive to Christianity, in fact among ancient religions virgin birth was relatively new to the Christian faith. Among the religions of the orient, virgin birth and spiritual birth of their Guru or Saviour was not only accepted as a possibility but as a fact natural to all Gurus.

It is a fact that divine births were so commonly accepted among ancient people that whenever they hear of one who has greatly distinguish himself, they immediately classify such a person as having been born of a supernatural lineage. The learned Thomas Maurice in his book called Indian Antiquities, goes far as to state that “in every age and in almost every religion of the Asiatic world, there seems uniformly to have flourished an immemorial tradition that one god had from all eternity begotten another god”
CRUCIFIXION OF CHRISHNA OF INDIA, 1200 B.C.
The history of Chrishna Zeus (or Jeseus, as some writers spell it) is contained principally in the Baghavat Gita, the episode portion of the Mahabaret bible. The book is believed to be divinely inspired, like all other bibles; and the Hindoos claim for it an antiquity of six thousand years. Like Christ, he was of humble origin, and like him had to encounter opposition and persecution.

CRUCIFIXION OF THE HINDOO SAKIA, 600 B.C.
THAMMUZ OF SYRIA CRUCIFIED, 1160 B.C.CRUCIFIXION OF WITTOBA OF THE TELINGONESIC, 552 B.C.
"He is represented in his history with nail-holes in his hands and the soles of his feet."
IAO OF NEPAUL CRUCIFIED, 622 B.C.The name of this incarnate God and oriental Savior occurs frequently in the holy bibles and sacred books of other countries. Some suppose that Iao (often spelt Jao) is the root of the name of the Jewish God Jehovah.

HESUS OF THE CELTIC DRUIDS CRUCIFIED, 834 B.C.
QUEXALCOTE OF MEXICO CRUCIFIED, 587 B.C.
Mexican God, executied upon the cross as a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of mankind.The evidence is tangible, and indelibly engraved upon steel and metal plates. One of these plates represents him as having been crucified on a mountain; another represents him as having been crucified in the heavens
QUIRINUS OF ROME CRUCIFIED, 506 B.C.He is represented, like Christ: --
As having been conceived and brought forth by a virgin
His life was sought by the reigning king (Amulius).
He was of royal blood, his mother being of kingly descent.
He was "put to death by wicked hands" -- i.e., crucified.
At his mortal exit the whole earth is said to have been enveloped in darkness, as in the case of Christ, Chrishna, and Prometheus.
And finally he is resurrected, and ascends back to heaven.

Now lets look at other examples of Virgin Births.


India has a number of messengers who were divinely conceived and two of them bore the name “Chrishna” or “Chrishna the Saviour” (note the similarity with Christ). Now Chrishna was born of a chaste virgin called Devaki, Who on account of her purity was selected to become the mother of God.

Buddha was considered and believed by his followers to have been begotten of God and born of a virgin whose name was Maya. Long before the Christian era, we read of how the divine power called the” Holy Ghost” descended upon virgin Maya. In ancient Chinese version of the story, the holy ghost is called Shing-Shin.

The Siamese (Taiwan), had a God and saviour who was Virgin Born whom they called Codom. In this very ancient story, the beautiful Virgin had been informed in advance that she was to become the mother of a great messenger of God, and one day while in her usual period of meditation and prayer, she was impregnated by divine sun beams. When the boy was born, he grew up in a remarkable manner, became a protégé of wisdom and performed miracles.

When the first Jesuit priest visited china, they wrote in their reports at finding a heathen religion of that country, of a story of a redeeming Saviour who was born of a Virgin and divinely conceived. The God was said to have been born 3468 B.C (before Christ), his name was Lao-Tsze and was said to have been born of a virgin black in complexion and as beautiful as a Jasper.

In Egypt, long before the Christian era, and before any of its doctrine was conceived, the Egyptian people had several messengers of God, who were conceived through Immaculate Conception.
Horus was known to all of ancient Egypt as having been born of the virgin Isis and his conception and birth was considered one of the three great mysteries or mystical doctrines of the Egyptian religion. To then every incident in connection with the conception and birth of Horus was pictured, sculptured, adored and worshiped as the incidents of the conception and birth of Jesus is among the Christians today. Another Egyptian God called Ra was also conceived by a Virgin.

I think I should stop here, because if I decide to go on the examples would be too many. But I want to add that even, Plato who was born in Athens in 429 B.C. was believed by the populace to be a divine son of a pure virgin called Perictione.
It is recorded in the ancient record that the father of Plato who was known as Aris had been admonished in a spiritual dream to hold pure and sacred the person of his wife, until after the divine conception and birth of the child that is to come and that this child would be conceived by divine means.

Mulachabu Loc: Sydney Australia

Very interesting, unfortunately just as the stories do not begin with 'Once upon a time' they do not end with 'And they all lived happily ever after'.