For those that don't believe Mormons are Christians
Sep 30, 2012 16:56:20 #
Sep 30, 2012 16:58:19 #
ngc1514 wrote:
quote=wpromine Much of what has been discussed h... (show quote)
Ah!! One of the best questions yet. It is, of course, perhaps the great thesis of the Bible. How Lucifer the archangel and a group of angels attempted a coup against God and were cast from His presence, allowed to be loose for a time to have influence on earth, only to be eventually chained forever. God could have chained Lucifer and his demons from the beginning, but chose not to. The battle between good and evil serves God's purpose. Malevolent? Without this spiritual battle man would not exist. As far as the universe goes, we are unique. We are the battleground of good and evil.
Sep 30, 2012 16:59:26 #
mericando
Loc: NASHVILLE TN
That is a no brainer--I choose to believe in God--you don't We both chose our path. A bank robbery at one point has to choose to rob or not to rob and stay out of jail. A person chooses to hold their temper and walk away, or to let it explode and do harm to someone else. Yes there are mental factors that play into some people's lives but even then, many choose not to take the medicine that will help them function in this world. Got a nephew who refuses, and because of that, he is serving time. Had he stayed on the meds, then he would have made a better choice.
Even in countries that do not have the freedom to choose like we do, they still have a choice to follow the demands of their gov't or to try to get to a place where they are free to choose. Some in countries which do not allow you personal freedom, chose to exercise that freedom anyway knowing full well they will suffer the consequences. That is how many countries have become free or have more choice of freedoms. This country is one-people chose to come here knowing the dangers of crossing to an unknown land. This is another reason so many come to this country both legally and illegally to find freedom. Making a choice - people may try to force you into doing something, but the final choice is yours. We are the only creature on earth that has this ability from birth-animals can be taught, but babies when born can refuse to nurse or take a bottle or to latch on. Babies choose their own pacifiers, went thru several until my baby found the one she would take. Yep got wound up, but I know you need more than no brainer. Without freedom of choice, we would all be robots, or have total anarchy Without free will, you and the others on this thread would not be talking about Christianity vs Mormonism, Evolution vs Creation, Canon vs Nikon, strawberry ice cream vs chocolate, chevy vs ford, Romney vs Obama ad nausem : )
Even in countries that do not have the freedom to choose like we do, they still have a choice to follow the demands of their gov't or to try to get to a place where they are free to choose. Some in countries which do not allow you personal freedom, chose to exercise that freedom anyway knowing full well they will suffer the consequences. That is how many countries have become free or have more choice of freedoms. This country is one-people chose to come here knowing the dangers of crossing to an unknown land. This is another reason so many come to this country both legally and illegally to find freedom. Making a choice - people may try to force you into doing something, but the final choice is yours. We are the only creature on earth that has this ability from birth-animals can be taught, but babies when born can refuse to nurse or take a bottle or to latch on. Babies choose their own pacifiers, went thru several until my baby found the one she would take. Yep got wound up, but I know you need more than no brainer. Without freedom of choice, we would all be robots, or have total anarchy Without free will, you and the others on this thread would not be talking about Christianity vs Mormonism, Evolution vs Creation, Canon vs Nikon, strawberry ice cream vs chocolate, chevy vs ford, Romney vs Obama ad nausem : )
Sep 30, 2012 17:01:53 #
Sep 30, 2012 17:06:47 #
mericando
Loc: NASHVILLE TN
ditto BHK 42
I know lot of the believers have dropped out but still monitoring this forum I was trying to just check it without comment but then to paraphrase Pres. Reagan There they go again - from healthy debate to making snide remarks about our God. But that's o.k. He's big enough to take it - But I do like to defend my beliefs - Guess I'm gonna have to just let go and let God - if I don't I'm gonna squander my time on this forum instead of getting something productive done.
'Nuff said Blessing to all
I know lot of the believers have dropped out but still monitoring this forum I was trying to just check it without comment but then to paraphrase Pres. Reagan There they go again - from healthy debate to making snide remarks about our God. But that's o.k. He's big enough to take it - But I do like to defend my beliefs - Guess I'm gonna have to just let go and let God - if I don't I'm gonna squander my time on this forum instead of getting something productive done.
'Nuff said Blessing to all
Sep 30, 2012 17:11:50 #
So he's the son of god but not the son of god? Have I got that right? And the father you keep referring to isn't his father? Have I got that right too? And then there's something else called the holy ghost, yes? Like the marshmallow man? Truly it takes religion to come up with something this screwy. And you guys honestly believe this? My, my.
Sep 30, 2012 17:24:41 #
mericando
Loc: NASHVILLE TN
Read the Bible Bazamac and you will see. If not you will definitely believe when you die. The Godhead is 3 in 1 - Take a pencil - this is a very, very, simple explanation- no depth to it at all but take a pencil- look at it on 1 end it has an eraser, on the other end it has a point of lead and in between it has a body that holds it all together. So, in this simple explanation the Godhead or more commonly called the Trinity is like this = The body is God, the point is the Holy Spirit which points out sin and points the way to Christ. Christ is the eraser, by His death on the cross, He erases all of your sins if you believe in Him and opens the door to God and heaven as your eternal home. No big theological words, no preaching words, just a little example of how 1 thing can be 3 things in one.
Rats, I forgot, I was going to stop responding and do something more productive. Those of you that ridicule our beliefs will probably never change your beliefs-and just continue the ridicule and snide remarks. So, I will really leave this forum and leave it up to God. I pray that one day you will just check out God, read His word, especially the 1st 4 books in the New Testament with an open mind and hear the soft voice say "I'm for real-come check Me out"
Rats, I forgot, I was going to stop responding and do something more productive. Those of you that ridicule our beliefs will probably never change your beliefs-and just continue the ridicule and snide remarks. So, I will really leave this forum and leave it up to God. I pray that one day you will just check out God, read His word, especially the 1st 4 books in the New Testament with an open mind and hear the soft voice say "I'm for real-come check Me out"
Sep 30, 2012 17:30:34 #
Open mind? Check. Read the gospels? Check. Nowhere in there did it say god was a pencil. But then that wouldn't be the strangest interpretation of a part of the bible I'd ever heard. Lets hear it for Leviticus - now there's an essay in being loving, tolerant and gentle if ever there was one
Sep 30, 2012 17:40:06 #
Bazamac wrote:
So he's the son of god but not the son of god? Have I got that right? And the father you keep referring to isn't his father? Have I got that right too? And then there's something else called the holy ghost, yes? Like the marshmallow man? Truly it takes religion to come up with something this screwy. And you guys honestly believe this? My, my.
Actually, it's based on Scripture which speaks about each individual Person of the Trinity. If you would check out a standard theology such as Hodge or Berkhof and follow the Scriptural attributions under Theology Proper, Christology, and Pneumatology, you would find the basis for each Person of the Godhead being given the immutable attributes of God, being distinct Persons, yet being one in substance, namely Deity.
Sep 30, 2012 17:46:51 #
Gish, all those -ologies. Makes it sound like it's proper science or something rather than made up stuff. Try one of the standard fantasy writers such as Tokien or Donaldson. Just as believable and a lot more fun to read!
Sep 30, 2012 17:56:43 #
Bazamac wrote:
Gish, all those -ologies. Makes it sound like it's proper science or something rather than made up stuff. Try one of the standard fantasy writers such as Tokien or Donaldson. Just as believable and a lot more fun to read!
You've gotta be kidding.
Sep 30, 2012 18:12:55 #
That's just what I say when people tell me there are answers in the christian version of the big book of magic stuff. Or any of the other versions, actually
Sep 30, 2012 21:48:10 #
mericando wrote:
That is a no brainer--I choose to believe in God--... (show quote)
No, it's not a "no brainer" for the simple fact that you have not demonstrated free will. You have given examples of what you think are instances of free will, but how do you know the person with the temper has any choice in how he actually responds? Your nephew may be predestined to refuse his meds and have absolutely no choice in the matter. In a few years he might be predestined to do something different.
That's the reason why I asked how a world without free will would look. Seems to me it would look exactly like the world in which we live.
Sep 30, 2012 21:50:54 #
SteveR wrote:
quote=ngc1514 quote=wpromine Much of what has b... (show quote)
Are you sure this isn't the script from an old Twilight Zone??
What, exactly, does a "coup against god" mean?
Sep 30, 2012 23:38:25 #
mericando
Loc: NASHVILLE TN
Ok NGC - Now that is 1 of the stupidest answers I have ever heard from an evolutionist. Unless there is in the scientific world Intelligent Design, (or in truth God) there can be no predestination.
According to your own statement there is no God or Intelligent Designer, we all came from inanimate material and all the little atoms, molecules, amino acids, protein,cells etc, etc just happen to come together in the right sequence and viola' out comes life and then that life oozed out more life, then that life oozed out a different life form and other life forms came to be and so and so, and some became male life forms and other female, and some became dogs, cats, elephants, dinosaurs, fish, whales, sharks, octopi, snakes lions Oh, my, kept going until we got to this stage and then BOOOM life stopped evolving.(And I believe in fairy tales get real)
Really great scenario, but given the way you believe we came to be, there is no such thing as predestination. If you will check the meaning of predestination you will see it is associated with believers of God or gods. It is most often with Christianity, Judaism,Catholicism, but is also part of the Mormonism, Buddaism, Pantheist, Islam, Hindu faiths and in Greek Mythology, most cults even satanic cults, and probably every other faith that you can name. All with belief that the world was created-not evolved. So, my friend, you I'm sure you will find some way out of this that will bring satisfaction to your mind and beliefs, but the truth is, all predestination leads to a faith in some type of creator/creators. And sometimes, me thinks you just like to put this junk out there to get a response out of those of us who believe. I am trying to help you be non-successful at ha, but I guess my personality of standing true to my belief and my God- just makes me want to respond to you. Guess I'm just gonna have to stop monitoring this forum. And reading the foolishness of those that have closed their hearts and minds to the truth.
According to your own statement there is no God or Intelligent Designer, we all came from inanimate material and all the little atoms, molecules, amino acids, protein,cells etc, etc just happen to come together in the right sequence and viola' out comes life and then that life oozed out more life, then that life oozed out a different life form and other life forms came to be and so and so, and some became male life forms and other female, and some became dogs, cats, elephants, dinosaurs, fish, whales, sharks, octopi, snakes lions Oh, my, kept going until we got to this stage and then BOOOM life stopped evolving.(And I believe in fairy tales get real)
Really great scenario, but given the way you believe we came to be, there is no such thing as predestination. If you will check the meaning of predestination you will see it is associated with believers of God or gods. It is most often with Christianity, Judaism,Catholicism, but is also part of the Mormonism, Buddaism, Pantheist, Islam, Hindu faiths and in Greek Mythology, most cults even satanic cults, and probably every other faith that you can name. All with belief that the world was created-not evolved. So, my friend, you I'm sure you will find some way out of this that will bring satisfaction to your mind and beliefs, but the truth is, all predestination leads to a faith in some type of creator/creators. And sometimes, me thinks you just like to put this junk out there to get a response out of those of us who believe. I am trying to help you be non-successful at ha, but I guess my personality of standing true to my belief and my God- just makes me want to respond to you. Guess I'm just gonna have to stop monitoring this forum. And reading the foolishness of those that have closed their hearts and minds to the truth.
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