dachs

yeah but - the meek shall inherit the Earth, and they don't come meeker than mutated cockroaches (I defy the censor spell checker to star out the first 'o'!)

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Yes, the meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us are going to the stars.

The branching between Phylums Arthropoda and Chordata took place millions of years before the family containing cockroaches evolved. Not a single mutated cockroach in any of the Chordata's family trees.

(But... Just between the two of us, there were some inlaws in a previous marriage I still have some doubts about.)

dachs

dear New Galactic Catalogue, if I can call you that for short, I knew roaches' genetics don't suffer from radiations much (maybe they are already even more perfect than rats, so their systems don't 'need' to?) which is why most likely they'll inherit. We'll not be here to see the roach wars between the ones in surplices swinging incense and the ones in Burkhas, but it would be fun, and Jonathan Swift would just love the one in the corner explaining the event horizon to bored students on an 'ology course.
Nothing changes in our world, possibly.....

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Actually it's the New General Catalogue of Nebulae and Star Clusters. Assembled by J.L.E. Dreyer and published in 1888, it, along with the Index Catalogue, cover most of the brightest non-stellar objects in the sky. Catalogue listing 1514 is a lovely planetary nebula in Taurus. One at which I never fail to point the telescope when it's above the horizon.

The bit about religious roach wars was wonderful and far funnier than the endlessly resurrected jokes posted on here. Well done, sir!

With all the old saws being posted make me wonder if there are any new jokes. I expect most of us were aware of the majority of the jokes while still in our minority. Are there just a finite number of jokes?

Bazamac Loc: Manchester, UK

Seen any gods out there when you've been looking?

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Alas, no. Not even a single flying saucer. I keep looking for those Pearly Gates...

dachs

He's likely been too busy admiring The good Lord's work in constructing the Universe, depending on the power of his eyepiece.

Yes I abbreviated the NGC unwholesomely, but at least you caught my drift.

Back to the query, one has only to see the Horsehead Nebula (sadly, for me, only in photos) one has only to see this to realise that God exists and Terry Pratchett was wholly correct.

Go cheerfully, as always

dachs

ps - we seem to have lost the Creationist Revisionist Bourgoisie Proletariat Zionist Hindi Uluru Native American Thugii; have they become bored with us I don't wonder? Pity, the to and fro was heated but nonetheless a valid broach of thought process, so I thought, humbly of course.....

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Does watching a supernova possibly wipe out all life within a few light years also show god exists? Or are we just observing the laws of physics at work?

Photos of the Horsehead are far more impressive than the object itself. In my 16" scope it's a dark thumbprint against a background nebula barely brighter than the surrounding sky. Would have been helpful if god had designed our eyes to accumulate photons like the bins in a CCD.

Mulachabu Loc: Sydney Australia

Boo, I think there are still some like myself monitoring (for want of a better description) the ongoing conversation. I do throw my bit in now and again but inevitably the debate often reaches into areas of science, theology and philosophy etc of such impressive levels that I become content to just follow the debate as an observer and see what I can learn. I must say, I always look forward to the knowledgeable contributions made by ngc1514. Most importantly is that we are very fortunate to be able to have these debates and I look forward to many more.

wpromine

I have taken part in discussions on this Forum regarding God vs Athesism/ agnostics. However,this time I would like to enter the conversation topic about which this stream began.

The tenent of Christianity is simple---Belief. Belief that God is who He claims to be--that He sent his Son to teach that His Kingdom is here now within each of us if we seek Him digilently enough to have his nature revealed. No man is "good" enough or rich enough to earn his way to a gift of eternal life. It must be "free" but what is required of us is that we believe. This is the most difficult thing for thse who believe only those things which can be proven. Those things as yet unproven---are they any less factual now than they will be when man finally wraps his brain around them and proves it to our satisfaction?

What God requires of us is faith without proof, and with free will we will choose one or the other path. There are no other choices.

Much of what has been discussed here is actually doctrine, ie: man's "take' or interperation of God's intent. That is what turns many away. 'How can a just God allow terrible injustices?' A large percentage of these are by the hand of man---by his decision to persecute and make war for greed and power---yes, many are in His name, but are by man's hand and his will. Even church doctrine has man's hand on much of it. God's blamed for far more more than He deserves for acts of man done "in His name".

"Believe and seek His Way". Most of the rest is misleading and of man. Science and Math are tools to prove mysteries as man "catches up", but do not exclude the Arthor of all there is.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent.

Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent.

Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

Epicurus (c. 341 - c. 270 BC)

What's your choice?

mericando Loc: NASHVILLE TN

Humans have free will-If not we would be robots Evil comes from Satan and humans do evil because of him. God choses to let us humans chose which way we will follow-God and chose His way, or chose Satan and walk in his way which includes some very evil things.
I agree with wpomine it boils all boils down to a matter of belief.

To the things we do not understand that happens on this earth the Bible tells us we will know some day-


12 We don’t yet see things clearly. We’re squinting in a fog, peering through a mist. But it won’t be long before the weather clears and the sun shines bright! We’ll see it all then, see it all as clearly as God sees us, knowing Him directly just as He knows us!

1 Corinthians 13:12

Some believe Epicurus some believe God - That is called free will and thankfully we do live in a country where we can debate and chose what we believe in - And prayfully, this country will remain a place for freedom of religion or no religion and a place where a debate can take place without fear for our lives.

ngc1514 Loc: Atlanta, Ga., Lancaster, Oh. and Stuart, Fl.

That is your claim, your assertion. Now support it.

How do you know we have free will? How would our lives be different if we didn't? How could you tell the difference?

Bkh42 Loc: N.I. UK

for me that's it in a nutshell