out of focus
Oct 25, 2019 11:28:28 #
bpulv
Loc: Buena Park, CA
alaaan wrote:
Here's an image that was taken with an 18-55 lens at 55mm f/7.1 and 1/400 sec
I enlarged your photo and noticed that the camera is in best focus on the brick behind your subject. I think that your lens needs to be calibrated to your camera. There is a sensor that is part of the eye level viewfinder system that tells the camera when the lens is in focus. That sensor must be calibrated so it matches the exact focus at the CCD sensor's plane which it is not a part of the focus sensor (I might not be using the correct terminology). If there is even a slight difference in that alignment or if each of your lenses are not also aligned to both the focus and CCD sensors you cannot achieve optimum autofocus.
I am not acquainted with your Canon model, but many of both Canon and Nikon's camera models have provision for calibrating each of your lenses to the camera's autofocus system. You should look at this video, read the article and then your camera's manual to understand what needs to be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52fBIp4BI84
https://expertphotography.com/lens-calibration/
Oct 25, 2019 11:35:24 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
I agree with Chg_Canon, "AI Focus" is not a good focus mode to use. In fact, it's not a focus mode at all. Let me explain. Your camera has three possible AF "modes"....
1. AI Servo is for moving subjects. The AF continuously updates, as long as you hold half-press on the shutter release button. This allows it to track moving subjects and to "correct" focus as the distance between you and the subject changes. Because focus never stops and locks, because it continually updates, there's no Focus Confirmation with AI Servo.
2. One Shot is for stationary subjects. The AF stops and locks once it's achieved and Focus Confirmation is given. (Focus Confirmation in most Canon will flash AF points red or illuminate a green LED or, if it's enabled, give an audible "beep".)
3. AI Focus is automation where the camera is supposed to determine whether the subject is moving or not, then use one or the other of the above focus methods. I tried it many, many years ago.... with EOS-3 film cameras, which have a far more advanced AF system than a Rebel T3. I found AI Focus seemed to cause a focusing delay and at times it seemed to choose incorrectly or fail to switch modes properly if the subject started or stopped moving.
After I quite using AI Focus and learned to use Back Button Focusing (mostly with AI Servo, though it also can be used for One Shot), I saw 90% or better of my shots in focus.... where while using AI Focus about the best I ever got was around 60% (a lot of what I shoot is sports).
Note: If you use "Auto" or "Auto+"... aka, "the green box" on some Canon... that's the most highly automated "point n shoot" mode and a lot more than just auto exposure, that will force you to use AI Focus. For auto exposure, use P, Av, Tv modes instead... those give you auto exposure without also forcing other automated settings on you. M with Auto ISO is another form of auto exposure, though it may not be available or very usable on a T3.
Check out the most pro-oriented Canon.... the 1D-series cameras with the most sophisticated and high performance AF systems. They don't even have AI Focus mode (or "Auto+", for that matter). They only have One Shot and AI Servo.
Try not using AI Focus... choose One Shot or AI Servo yourself, as appropriate for the type of subject you're shooting. (P.S. Because it only works in One Shot mode, I keep the Focus Confirmation "beep" enabled on my Canons. It's a little bit obnoxious when using One Shot... but also reminds me immediately which focus mode I've got set. If subjects are moving and the camera is beeping, it's a good bet a lot of the images will miss focus.)
I also encourage using as few AF points as possible. On a T3 you only have two choices: All Points/Auto Selection or Single Point/Manually Selected. I honestly can't recall the last time I used All Points. That focus pattern leaves it to the camera to decide which AF point to use. It will usually choose the point or points covering the closest object, which often isn't where I'd want the lens to focus. I use Single Point most of the time, which puts me more in charge of where the camera and lens focus. My Canon have other focus area patterns that I occasionally use, which aren't available on a T3. The only focus area pattern I NEVER use is All Points.
But, here's the rub...
None of this explains what happened in that photo example above.
Based on where that AF point is shown in Chg_Canon's screen grab, the guy on the bench should be in sharp focus, regardless of how the AF was set up.
Instead focus is several feet in front of the subject. That can be seen in the pavers closer to the camera, as well as the detail of the wall on the left.
It's impossible to say exactly why this is. Maybe there's a fault in the lens or the camera. Maybe you released the shutter too fast, before the camera had fully achieved focus. (Some Canon have settings to help prevent that.... I don't think the entry-level T3 does.)
The lens you used for this shot, the EF-S 18-55mm IS STM, isn't the fastest focusing. Canon STM lenses aren't bad, but aren't as fast focusing as Canon USM lenses (cheaper "micro motor" lenses are slower than both). Canon doesn't make many lenses that use all their different types of autofocus drive, so direct head-to-head comparisons aren't possible. For example, there is no USM version of the 18-55mm. But, the EF-S 18-135mm IS lens happens to be one that's been offered with all three types of drive: micro motor, STM and USM. The last two are even identical optically. Canon claims the USM version is 2X to 4X faster focusing than the STM version. The EF-S 18-135mm IS USM was the first lens to introduce Canon's new "Nano USM" focus drive, which is silent and smooth operating like STM, while also being fast like USM.
You can test the camera and lens focus accuracy yourself pretty easily. Set the camera up on a tripod, aimed at a flat target with a lot of fine detail, like a brick wall. Orient the camera so that the sensor plane is as parallel as possible with the wall. Now use the camera's AF system in One Shot to focus on the wall and take a shot. Next switch the camera to Live View, focus again and take a second shot. (Live View focusing will be much slower on a T3, which doesn't have Canon's Dual Pixel AF... but even so, it will be fine for this test.)
Using an ISO, shutter speed and f-stop like you did for the above shot it shouldn't be a problem if you are touching the camera during exposure. But to eliminate the possibility of camera shake blur completely, with the camera on a tripod use a remote release to trip the shutter... or just use the camera's self timer to delay it.
Also be sure to remove any filter from the lens for these tests (might want to test with and without the filter).
Also do these test shots at several zoom settings.... widest, middle and longest focal lengths.
You say you have at least one other lens.... I'd suggest you repeat the above with that lens too, to see if there's any difference.
Download the images and compare them enlarged on your computer monitor. Ideally the shots done with the viewfinder-based AF system should be equally focused to the one done with Live View. if so, great. If not, the lens and/or camera AF system needs calibration. On a T3 this has to be done by a repair shop. There's no Micro Focus Adjustment feature, the way there is on some of the more advanced cameras. Two lenses may render things differently and one may be sharper than the other, but they both should achieve focus similarly. If one misses focus, the other should miss it too. If not... if one lens focuses correctly while the other doesn't.... it's probably the fault is with the lens, not the camera. But if both miss focus, the problem is likely in the camera.
The reason this gives you a good test is because your DSLR actually has two completely separate AF systems. The one you usually use.... the one with the nine AF points seen in the viewfinder... is a "phase detection" system that uses pairs of sensors to achieve focus. When you switch to Live View, the camera instead uses a contrast detection method done with the image sensor itself (some of the more advanced models instead have pairs of pixels embedded right in the image sensor, which perform phase detection focusing). The Live View focusing method is considerably slower, but with a plain target like that wall it's the most accurate since focusing is being done directly on the image sensor.
The viewfinder-based AF system is faster but relies upon mirrors and sensors separate from the image sensor.... and those can become misaligned, may require calibration. When that's needed with some cameras the user can fine tune and correct small focus errors using a Micro Focus Adjustment feature. However, your camera doesn't have this feature, so it's not an option. A good camera repair shop should be able to adjust it, though.
There's also always possibility that it's a user technique problem, too. Maybe it's not the camera and lens at all, but something in the way you are using the camera (such as using AI Focus or releasing the shutter too fast before focus has been achieved). If that's the case, buying a different camera plus one or more lenses to use on it)isn't likely to solve anything. You may just bring the same bad habits to the new gear and end up disappointed! I'd really try to figure out the problem with your current camera, lens or technique, before considering any sort of "upgrade"!
By the way, a Canon M6 Mark II might be a more practical "upgrade" from a T3, than an EOS R! Both are mirrorless cameras... the M6II is the latest from Canon, with a 32.5MP APS-C sensor, and is selling for around $1100 with an EF-M 15-45mm IS STM kit lens and an EVF-DC2 accessory viewfinder. The EOS R is somewhat bigger with a 30MP full frame sensor and is selling for $2700 with an RF 24-105mm f/4 IS USM kit lens.
1. AI Servo is for moving subjects. The AF continuously updates, as long as you hold half-press on the shutter release button. This allows it to track moving subjects and to "correct" focus as the distance between you and the subject changes. Because focus never stops and locks, because it continually updates, there's no Focus Confirmation with AI Servo.
2. One Shot is for stationary subjects. The AF stops and locks once it's achieved and Focus Confirmation is given. (Focus Confirmation in most Canon will flash AF points red or illuminate a green LED or, if it's enabled, give an audible "beep".)
3. AI Focus is automation where the camera is supposed to determine whether the subject is moving or not, then use one or the other of the above focus methods. I tried it many, many years ago.... with EOS-3 film cameras, which have a far more advanced AF system than a Rebel T3. I found AI Focus seemed to cause a focusing delay and at times it seemed to choose incorrectly or fail to switch modes properly if the subject started or stopped moving.
After I quite using AI Focus and learned to use Back Button Focusing (mostly with AI Servo, though it also can be used for One Shot), I saw 90% or better of my shots in focus.... where while using AI Focus about the best I ever got was around 60% (a lot of what I shoot is sports).
Note: If you use "Auto" or "Auto+"... aka, "the green box" on some Canon... that's the most highly automated "point n shoot" mode and a lot more than just auto exposure, that will force you to use AI Focus. For auto exposure, use P, Av, Tv modes instead... those give you auto exposure without also forcing other automated settings on you. M with Auto ISO is another form of auto exposure, though it may not be available or very usable on a T3.
Check out the most pro-oriented Canon.... the 1D-series cameras with the most sophisticated and high performance AF systems. They don't even have AI Focus mode (or "Auto+", for that matter). They only have One Shot and AI Servo.
Try not using AI Focus... choose One Shot or AI Servo yourself, as appropriate for the type of subject you're shooting. (P.S. Because it only works in One Shot mode, I keep the Focus Confirmation "beep" enabled on my Canons. It's a little bit obnoxious when using One Shot... but also reminds me immediately which focus mode I've got set. If subjects are moving and the camera is beeping, it's a good bet a lot of the images will miss focus.)
I also encourage using as few AF points as possible. On a T3 you only have two choices: All Points/Auto Selection or Single Point/Manually Selected. I honestly can't recall the last time I used All Points. That focus pattern leaves it to the camera to decide which AF point to use. It will usually choose the point or points covering the closest object, which often isn't where I'd want the lens to focus. I use Single Point most of the time, which puts me more in charge of where the camera and lens focus. My Canon have other focus area patterns that I occasionally use, which aren't available on a T3. The only focus area pattern I NEVER use is All Points.
But, here's the rub...
None of this explains what happened in that photo example above.
Based on where that AF point is shown in Chg_Canon's screen grab, the guy on the bench should be in sharp focus, regardless of how the AF was set up.
Instead focus is several feet in front of the subject. That can be seen in the pavers closer to the camera, as well as the detail of the wall on the left.
It's impossible to say exactly why this is. Maybe there's a fault in the lens or the camera. Maybe you released the shutter too fast, before the camera had fully achieved focus. (Some Canon have settings to help prevent that.... I don't think the entry-level T3 does.)
The lens you used for this shot, the EF-S 18-55mm IS STM, isn't the fastest focusing. Canon STM lenses aren't bad, but aren't as fast focusing as Canon USM lenses (cheaper "micro motor" lenses are slower than both). Canon doesn't make many lenses that use all their different types of autofocus drive, so direct head-to-head comparisons aren't possible. For example, there is no USM version of the 18-55mm. But, the EF-S 18-135mm IS lens happens to be one that's been offered with all three types of drive: micro motor, STM and USM. The last two are even identical optically. Canon claims the USM version is 2X to 4X faster focusing than the STM version. The EF-S 18-135mm IS USM was the first lens to introduce Canon's new "Nano USM" focus drive, which is silent and smooth operating like STM, while also being fast like USM.
You can test the camera and lens focus accuracy yourself pretty easily. Set the camera up on a tripod, aimed at a flat target with a lot of fine detail, like a brick wall. Orient the camera so that the sensor plane is as parallel as possible with the wall. Now use the camera's AF system in One Shot to focus on the wall and take a shot. Next switch the camera to Live View, focus again and take a second shot. (Live View focusing will be much slower on a T3, which doesn't have Canon's Dual Pixel AF... but even so, it will be fine for this test.)
Using an ISO, shutter speed and f-stop like you did for the above shot it shouldn't be a problem if you are touching the camera during exposure. But to eliminate the possibility of camera shake blur completely, with the camera on a tripod use a remote release to trip the shutter... or just use the camera's self timer to delay it.
Also be sure to remove any filter from the lens for these tests (might want to test with and without the filter).
Also do these test shots at several zoom settings.... widest, middle and longest focal lengths.
You say you have at least one other lens.... I'd suggest you repeat the above with that lens too, to see if there's any difference.
Download the images and compare them enlarged on your computer monitor. Ideally the shots done with the viewfinder-based AF system should be equally focused to the one done with Live View. if so, great. If not, the lens and/or camera AF system needs calibration. On a T3 this has to be done by a repair shop. There's no Micro Focus Adjustment feature, the way there is on some of the more advanced cameras. Two lenses may render things differently and one may be sharper than the other, but they both should achieve focus similarly. If one misses focus, the other should miss it too. If not... if one lens focuses correctly while the other doesn't.... it's probably the fault is with the lens, not the camera. But if both miss focus, the problem is likely in the camera.
The reason this gives you a good test is because your DSLR actually has two completely separate AF systems. The one you usually use.... the one with the nine AF points seen in the viewfinder... is a "phase detection" system that uses pairs of sensors to achieve focus. When you switch to Live View, the camera instead uses a contrast detection method done with the image sensor itself (some of the more advanced models instead have pairs of pixels embedded right in the image sensor, which perform phase detection focusing). The Live View focusing method is considerably slower, but with a plain target like that wall it's the most accurate since focusing is being done directly on the image sensor.
The viewfinder-based AF system is faster but relies upon mirrors and sensors separate from the image sensor.... and those can become misaligned, may require calibration. When that's needed with some cameras the user can fine tune and correct small focus errors using a Micro Focus Adjustment feature. However, your camera doesn't have this feature, so it's not an option. A good camera repair shop should be able to adjust it, though.
There's also always possibility that it's a user technique problem, too. Maybe it's not the camera and lens at all, but something in the way you are using the camera (such as using AI Focus or releasing the shutter too fast before focus has been achieved). If that's the case, buying a different camera plus one or more lenses to use on it)isn't likely to solve anything. You may just bring the same bad habits to the new gear and end up disappointed! I'd really try to figure out the problem with your current camera, lens or technique, before considering any sort of "upgrade"!
By the way, a Canon M6 Mark II might be a more practical "upgrade" from a T3, than an EOS R! Both are mirrorless cameras... the M6II is the latest from Canon, with a 32.5MP APS-C sensor, and is selling for around $1100 with an EF-M 15-45mm IS STM kit lens and an EVF-DC2 accessory viewfinder. The EOS R is somewhat bigger with a 30MP full frame sensor and is selling for $2700 with an RF 24-105mm f/4 IS USM kit lens.
Oct 25, 2019 12:24:00 #
Use the brass principle (B) breath, (R) relax, (A) aim, (S) squeeze slowly, (push shutter button halfway down for focusing), (S) shoot (press the shutter button the remainder of the way down until the photo is taken).
This is the same principle taught to Marine Corps shooters in Boot Camp and it works well to help with sighting/focusing. Even with this principle you can rush it and still be out of focus. I have caught myself many time rushing my shot and have to go back to the basics.
This is the same principle taught to Marine Corps shooters in Boot Camp and it works well to help with sighting/focusing. Even with this principle you can rush it and still be out of focus. I have caught myself many time rushing my shot and have to go back to the basics.
Oct 25, 2019 12:47:14 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
After looking at the CR2 passed via dropbox, the s... (show quote)
I have to agree with this. AI-Focus is the worse idea that Canon has ever had. I also think the OP should change the focus to a single focus point so that they can see that point in the viewfinder and put it on the most critical part of the image they want in focus. This will serve to remind them of the importance that they are in control and not the camera and to always put that focus point on the peoples faces/eyes (if the eyes are close enough). I'd also tell them that Tv is not as good as creating an image where you are in control of the Depth of Field such as when using Av or aperture priority. In the case of that image, I'd have used f/11 for better DOF. One other think to point out is that even at 1/400th of a sec shutter, if you move the camera or don't have good technique while hand holding, it might serve them better to use a tripod. This will also serve as a reminder to take your time, keep the camera steady, use your head before you take the shot and I can guarantee they will improve by 200%.
One last thing I noticed is that this is an SL2 camera and not a T3 and the OP didn't use 1/1000th of a sec in this instance. I suggest the OP improves their technique and becomes more familiar with the camera they have before expecting different results from a better more expensive camera.
Oct 25, 2019 13:14:47 #
alaaan wrote:
Here's an image that was taken with an 18-55 lens at 55mm f/7.1 and 1/400 sec
It looks like the depth of field issue to me. The bricks on the wall above the guy in the yellow shirt looks good everything else get soft. But having f-71 I would think it should be a better depth of field. Follow Paul's advice and and answer his private message and send it to photos to him he'll tell you what's wrong.
Oct 25, 2019 13:27:42 #
bpulv
Loc: Buena Park, CA
nikonbug wrote:
I agree with the focus being on the pavers in front of the shot. Maybe a "focus point" issue, or the lens needs to be calibrated to the camera.
See my previous comment above on calibrating the lens to the camera.
Oct 25, 2019 13:37:11 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
The Canon manual reads like AI Focus AF is the "best of both worlds". Alas, from my experience and many others, this is the worst AF setting of the three Canon provides.
Apparently, Canon agrees with you. The EOS R, and the RP have only 2 auto-focus settings: One Shot and Servo. Al Focus is no more, at least on those models.
Oct 25, 2019 14:57:33 #
jerryc41 wrote:
Put the camera on a tripod in good light and shoot... (show quote)
Thank you, I'll try that.
Oct 25, 2019 14:59:50 #
Oct 25, 2019 15:33:36 #
I just want to thank everyone for their extremely helpful advice. I've learned a lot in a short period of time.
The fact you guys and girls contributed so much time and effort to this question is AMAZING.
The fact you guys and girls contributed so much time and effort to this question is AMAZING.
Oct 25, 2019 16:00:52 #
Oct 25, 2019 16:04:53 #
Heather Iles
Loc: UK, Somerset
saxman71 wrote:
I don't see how anyone could possibly be more helpful with providing an accurate answer. An excellent analysis and remedy prescription.
Yes, he is very patient and realizes that we are not all at the same level with our photography and we are truly grateful.
Oct 25, 2019 17:42:25 #
Oct 25, 2019 17:56:54 #
Bob R
Loc: New Castle ,Delaware
Like target shooting , squeeze the shutter release until it trips . It should almost be a surprise. Turn on your shutter sound on if it is off.
Oct 25, 2019 19:33:34 #
alaaan wrote:
I've been reading the Ugly H for quite some time and find it extremely helpful.
I have a Canon Rebel 3 and have had issues with pictures being out of focus. I took some of the pictures to my local camera store and he told me the issue was camera shake since nothing in the picture was in focus. Having taken pictures at 1/1000 and higher I didn't think there could be camera shake. Your thoughts? I'm looking to trade up to the Canon EOS R if this will make a big difference. Thanks.
I have a Canon Rebel 3 and have had issues with pictures being out of focus. I took some of the pictures to my local camera store and he told me the issue was camera shake since nothing in the picture was in focus. Having taken pictures at 1/1000 and higher I didn't think there could be camera shake. Your thoughts? I'm looking to trade up to the Canon EOS R if this will make a big difference. Thanks.
I used a t3i for some time. It is a good camera, but it is 18 megapixel rather than 24. When I upgraded to the t71 my acceptance rate at stock agencies went up to almost 97%. There are a lot of things you can do with a camera that I have never studied. I just have an eye for a good picture. But with the t3i I definitely suggest a tripod. As fast as 1/1000 is, even then, some camera shake is possible. When I do not use a tripod I try to take several pictures, even with the same settings to make sure one of them comes out right. The best nature pictures are generally taken when the sun is low in the sky. But when the sun is low, it is harder to get an adequate amount of light. Therefore camera shake is even more of a problem. I recommend a tripod or upgrade to the t71 or higher.
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