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Trump’s Overt Racism Is Uniting Democrats and Unnerving Some Republicans
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Jul 17, 2019 16:42:15   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
Designdweeb wrote:
Is the Mueller Report the crap, or the training and professional credentials of Hannity and Limbaugh the crap?
And I'm hardly a Democrat, but I lived in NYC for decades, and have been both amused and horrified by the Trump family ideals and behavior for as long...


I never mentioned Hannity and Limbaugh. They are Pundits and more often than not, they get it right while the fake lying media is still standing there trying to wipe the egg off their faces.

The Mueller report had no charges. A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR DOES NOT EXONERATE, THAT TERM HAS NO LEGAL MEANING. THERE IS A CRIME OR THERE ISN'T. IN THIS CASE THERE ISN'T. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

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Jul 17, 2019 16:50:36   #
WNYShooter Loc: WNY
 
Designdweeb wrote:
Is the Mueller Report the crap, or the training and professional credentials of Hannity and Limbaugh the crap?
And I'm hardly a Democrat, but I lived in NYC for decades, and have been both amused and horrified by the Trump family ideals and behavior for as long...


Rush Limbaugh has always referred to himself as an entertainer, never saw anything where he called himself a journalist or columnist. What I don't understand is if you hate them so much, why do you listen to them and spend so much of your life whining about their commentary. I mean, you must be listening/watching them considering how much you apparently know about their shows and what they present on them.

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Jul 17, 2019 16:53:46   #
Angmo
 
WNYShooter wrote:
Rush Limbaugh has always referred to himself as an entertainer, never saw anything where he called himself a journalist or columnist. What I don't understand is if you hate them so much, why do you listen to them and spend so much of your life whining about their commentary. I mean, you must be listening/watching them considering how much you apparently know about their shows and what they present on them.



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Jul 17, 2019 17:31:12   #
Wuligal Loc: Slippery Rock, Pa.
 
Perhaps we should all wait for "the other side " of the story. If memory serves our judicial system allows an accused person to defend himself in court. We have not yet heard from Michael Horowitz, Bill Barr or many other officials that are investigating Orr, Steel, Andrew MaCabe, and the FBI lovers . We do know that the FISA warrant was unverified (according to Steel's testimony). We know that James Comey leaked classified information to his friend that passed the information to the press. We know for certain that some of that information in the Muller report was circular. (The FBI leaked it to the press then Muller used the same "information" in his report as being factual.)
We still don't know why Muller did not investigate the FISA report. We do not know when Muller first knew that Trump (by Muller's own words) did not collude with the Russians.

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Jul 17, 2019 17:43:13   #
Wuligal Loc: Slippery Rock, Pa.
 
Oops.....I hit the send button too quickly. Sorry.
In conclusion: the only factual information we have at this moment in time is Trump did not collude with the Russians and Muller said that there was not enough evidence to prosecute Trump for obstruction of justice.
So there.....Love him or hate him .....everything else is opinion, supposition and personal preference.

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Jul 17, 2019 17:57:36   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
retap wrote:
"Go back to where you came from" are code words used for generations against Irish immigrants, Jews, African-Americans and now Latinos. Leave my neighborhood, my city or "my" country, like the speaker owns it. In today's world, it is hard to determine where "go back to" really is. IMMIGRATION (yes, there is a problem) has been made the red herring to take focus away from the environment, healthcare, tariffs, automation, infrastructure, and the list goes on. People thought this guy was going to solve it all. Eliminating Roe v Wade, environmental regulations, affordable health care, reliable allies, and the list goes on does not make America great-it sure will not make it Great again. I really don't like that frame of reference because it reflects back to a mythic past that never really existed. Our nation is a work in progress but we have been back tracking in the last three years.

Anyone ever use the stick on uv filters for Lumix point and shoots (see, this is what this forum is supposed to be about).
"Go back to where you came from" are cod... (show quote)


Got a quote where he said “go back to where you came from” my friend?

Of course you don’t.

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Jul 17, 2019 18:01:09   #
Designdweeb Loc: Metro NYC & East Stroudsburg, PA
 
WNYShooter wrote:
Rush Limbaugh has always referred to himself as an entertainer, never saw anything where he called himself a journalist or columnist. What I don't understand is if you hate them so much, why do you listen to them and spend so much of your life whining about their commentary. I mean, you must be listening/watching them considering how much you apparently know about their shows and what they present on them.

I don't listen to these commentators, and I'm not a fan-boy of any of the parties involved in this debacle and search for many different opinions. I try to ignore the name-calling and labeling and follow the actions of the people leading us in one direction or another. Words and promises are often misleading, a sleight-of-hand, but they do have an effect, for better or worse. I am not optimistic about the direction this society is going right now and hope our experiment, a country based on diverse ideas and common ideals, not ethnicity, or tribalism, or the tyranny of profits for the few at others expense can survive intact.

“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”

― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Jul 17, 2019 18:06:00   #
yhtomit Loc: Port Land. Oregon
 
Elaine2025 wrote:
I never mentioned Hannity and Limbaugh. They are Pundits and more often than not, they get it right while the fake lying media is still standing there trying to wipe the egg off their faces.

The Mueller report had no charges. A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR DOES NOT EXONERATE, THAT TERM HAS NO LEGAL MEANING. THERE IS A CRIME OR THERE ISN'T. IN THIS CASE THERE ISN'T. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.



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Jul 17, 2019 18:16:16   #
Designdweeb Loc: Metro NYC & East Stroudsburg, PA
 
Elaine2025 wrote:
I never mentioned Hannity and Limbaugh. They are Pundits and more often than not, they get it right while the fake lying media is still standing there trying to wipe the egg off their faces.

The Mueller report had no charges. A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR DOES NOT EXONERATE, THAT TERM HAS NO LEGAL MEANING. THERE IS A CRIME OR THERE ISN'T. IN THIS CASE THERE ISN'T. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

The scope of the report was not to charge, that is a possible conclusion after a congressional inquiry, as I understand the limits of Mueller's task.

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Jul 17, 2019 18:44:36   #
yhtomit Loc: Port Land. Oregon
 
Designdweeb wrote:
Elaine2025 wrote:
I never mentioned Hannity and Limbaugh. They are Pundits and more often than not, they get it right while the fake lying media is still standing there trying to wipe the egg off their faces.

The Mueller report had no charges. A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR DOES NOT EXONERATE, THAT TERM HAS NO LEGAL MEANING. THERE IS A CRIME OR THERE ISN'T. IN THIS CASE THERE ISN'T. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.

The scope of the report was not to charge, that is a possible conclusion after a congressional inquiry, as I understand the limits of Mueller's task.
Elaine2025 wrote: br I never mentioned Hannity and... (show quote)


The scope was to find evidence to charge. To date, no evidence has been provided to warrant charges.
Mueller stepped out of his role when he told people where to fish.
Like I said, the investigation of the investigation will tell all from both sides of the isle.

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Jul 17, 2019 20:26:33   #
Designdweeb Loc: Metro NYC & East Stroudsburg, PA
 
dennis2146 wrote:
Gosh darn it. You are cheating by bringing up something in the realm of common sense. Liberals can’t handle common sense.

While on the common sense question though, why didn’t Obama do something/anything about the Russians interfering? He knew about it.

Dennis

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senate-republicans-rebuke-mcconnell-trump-on-russia-sanctions-resolution
https://www.npr.org/2018/02/21/587614043/fact-check-why-didnt-obama-stop-russia-s-election-interference-in-2016
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/147133/donald-trump-wants-know-obama-didnt-russian-meddling-ask-mitch-mcconnell
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/12/why-didnt-obama-reveal-intel-about-russias-influence-on-the-election/510242/
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/14/politics/mcconnell-election-security/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/27/trump-2020-election-russia-meddling-interference-experts
https://www.rferl.org/a/us-administration-warns-threats-us-elections-meddling-russia/30048770.html

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Jul 17, 2019 20:32:30   #
pendennis
 
Designdweeb wrote:
The likes of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are entertainers, columnists at best, funded to the tune of millions by dark money, they are not journalists!

Please, the Mueller Report did not find him innocent, on the contrary, it found that there are 10 points that could not be declared so, but the limits of the jurisdiction, the authority of the report's team have to leave those points to Congress to investigate, and it initiated IIRC 14 other investigations for the (NY) Southern District to pursue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mueller_Report
Volume I of the report concludes that the investigation did not find sufficient evidence that the campaign "coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities" and did not pursue charges for others beyond Manafort and Gates under statutes governing conspiracy or foreign agents.[4][5] Investigators ultimately had an incomplete picture of what happened due to communications that were encrypted, deleted or unsaved, as well as testimony that was false, incomplete or declined.[6][7][8] However, the report stated that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion" and "violated U.S. criminal law".[9][10][11] It lists two methods by which Russia attempted to influence the election. Firstly, a social media campaign by the Internet Research Agency (IRA) which supported the Trump presidential campaign, attacked the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, and aimed to “provoke and amplify political and social discord".[12][13][14] Secondly, Russian military intelligence agency GRU conducted computer hacking and strategically released damaging material stolen from the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party organizations.[15][16][17] The campaign is further stated to have "welcomed" this ongoing interference as they “expected [to] benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts”.[18][19][20] It also identifies links between Trump campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government,[21] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.[4] During the investigation, the special counsel recommended the indictment of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his former deputy Rick Gates, and they were found guilty of criminal offenses stemming from their prior lobbying work for the Ukrainian Party of Regions. Mueller later stated that his investigation's conclusion on Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American".[22]

Volume II of the report addresses obstruction of justice. The investigation intentionally took an approach that could not result in a judgment that Trump committed a crime.[23][24][25] The special counsel refrained from making a judgment about whether to criminally charge Trump because investigators abided by an Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) opinion that a sitting president cannot stand trial,[26][27][28] and feared that charges would affect Trump's governing and possibly preempt his impeachment.[24][27][29] Consistent with standing DOJ policy,[30] investigators felt it would be unfair to accuse Trump of a crime without charges and without a trial in which he could clear his name.[26][27][31] As such, the investigation "does not conclude that the President committed a crime"; however, "it also does not exonerate him",[13][32] as investigators were not confident that Trump was innocent after examining his intent and actions.[33][34][35][36]
The likes of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh are en... (show quote)


Mueller was to draw no conclusions from his report. He was to report strictly on what he found. He's not allowed to draw conclusions, or make inferences. He reports only on fact.

That he made a conclusion that he didn't have enough evidence to support any charges of obstruction was completely outside his purview. His conclusion was a "gotcha" on his way out, and he was clearly out of bounds when he stated the President could not be exonerated. None other than Andrew McCarthy, a former prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, stated as much.

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Jul 17, 2019 21:13:37   #
Lemon Drop Kid Loc: Greeley, CO
 
adamsg wrote:
REALLY????


Absolutely.

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Jul 17, 2019 22:15:36   #
Angmo
 
pendennis wrote:
Mueller was to draw no conclusions from his report. He was to report strictly on what he found. He's not allowed to draw conclusions, or make inferences. He reports only on fact.

That he made a conclusion that he didn't have enough evidence to support any charges of obstruction was completely outside his purview. His conclusion was a "gotcha" on his way out, and he was clearly out of bounds when he stated the President could not be exonerated. None other than Andrew McCarthy, a former prosecutor for the Southern District of New York, stated as much.
Mueller was to draw no conclusions from his report... (show quote)


He stated no further legal actions. Period.

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Jul 17, 2019 22:48:18   #
pendennis
 
Angmo wrote:
He stated no further legal actions. Period.

No, but he stated in his reported that there wasn't enough evidence to warrant obstruction charges. That's outside his purview to determine what is prosecutable, and what isn't. He reached a conclusion, and his charge was only to report the facts.

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