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Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire When will the lies stop?
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Aug 31, 2012 10:35:48   #
jimbo70 Loc: Orange Park, FL.
 
This is an article from the Huffington Post:
TAMPA, Fla. -- The Paul Ryan campaign is pushing back against charges that the vice presidential candidate blatantly misled viewers during his acceptance speech, when he blamed President Barack Obama for a GM plant plant closure that took place while George W. Bush was president. The thrust of the Ryan argument is that whenever the plant may have closed, it has yet to re-open under Obama, and is therefore a symbol of a failed recovery.

"It’s President Obama who needs to explain his words," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Ryan, in an email to HuffPost. "The facts are clear: when the GM plant went on standby, the president told the people of Wisconsin he would ‘lead an effort to retool’ it and restart production. But when the bailout’s winners and losers were decided, Janesville ended up losing. The people of Wisconsin, like so many Americans, are still waiting for the president’s imaginary recovery.”

Buck was referring to an October 2008 Associated Press article, which quotes candidate Obama saying that if he's elected, he will "lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility." That's different, of course, than saying he'd retool the plant itself, which made SUVs, but it adds context to Ryan's argument.

Ryan's speech has led conservative media outlets to clash with mainstream fact-checkers, who have debunked Ryan's claim by noting that the plant didn't fully wind down until Obama was president in April 2009, when the final 57 workers were laid off.

Ryan's campaign, notably, is not reaching for that technicality to defend his claim, and instead is making the broader point that the closing date is less important than the fact it has not re-opened.

Ryan, during his acceptance speech, referenced Obama's speech in Janesville in February 2008.

“I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress you’ve made -- how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles you’re churning out," Obama said. “And I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another 100 years.”

I guess you can draw your own conclusions from it.

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Aug 31, 2012 10:37:27   #
hamtrack Loc: Omaha NE
 
I find it extraordinary, when considering the issues concerning outright falsehoods and outrageous accusations propagated by members of the current administration, including and not limited to the President, are verified to be false, and then just seem to be dismissed completely by the left and the mainstream media, and never to be heard from or about again. Is it possible, that the market share of these TV commendations and loud wondrous voices, have been in a nose dive due to the populous just not swallowing anymore of their inability to provide the news on anything other than the left wing progressive bias? As an over ride to all this left wing blather, I would offer this. No one can dispute that we now owe $16 trillion to others. No one can dispute that 23 million US able bodied workers are out of work. No one can dispute that there are 45 million + on food stamps and no one can dispute that after 4 years of the current administrations policies and actions, we are still in a mess.

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Aug 31, 2012 10:59:36   #
gibfield
 
Right on.... I will not make personal comments about UHH responders....Is that a Promise.... You betcha.

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Aug 31, 2012 11:29:33   #
amyinsparta Loc: White county, TN
 
Why did anyone waste their precious time even listening to the two? My goodness, if we had ten bucks for every lie a politician uttered, we could get rid of the national debt!

But voters believe what they wish to believe, and vote accordingly. Then, when the things they were told would happen don't come about, they blame the other party, whether it was in power or not.

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 11:39:41   #
Reddog Loc: Southern Calif
 
At least these two are smarter than Sarah Palin, she caused me to leave the party! She spoke nothing but sound bites and people still defended her. Romney spoke a lot of half truths and lies but it was a good speech! I think Romney is trying to satisfy the crazy part of the base to get elected and will go back to the center once he wins. Ryan has been turned into a door mat and just goes with Romney which is OK with me>
amyinsparta wrote:
Why did anyone waste their precious time even listening to the two? My goodness, if we had ten bucks for every lie a politician uttered, we could get rid of the national debt!

But voters believe what they wish to believe, and vote accordingly. Then, when the things they were told would happen don't come about, they blame the other party, whether it was in power or not.

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 11:49:41   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
greymule wrote:
Wednesday that if he and his running mate Mitt Romney were elected president, they would usher in an ethic of responsibility. The Wisconsin congressman and GOP vice presidential candidate repeatedly chided President Barack Obama for blaming the jobs and housing crises on his predecessor, saying that his habit of "forever shifting blame to the last administration, is getting old. The man assumed office almost four years ago -– isn’t it about time he assumed responsibility?"

Ryan then noted that Obama, while campaigning for president, promised that a GM plant in Wisconsin would not shut down. "That plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight," Ryan said.

Except Obama didn't promise that. And the plant closed in December 2008 -- while George W. Bush was president.

It was just one of several striking and demonstrably misleading elements of Ryan's much-anticipated acceptance speech. And it comes just days after Romney pollster Neil Newhouse warned, defending the campaign's demonstrably false ads claiming Obama removed work requirements from welfare, "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."

Ryan, for his part, slammed the president for not supporting a deficit commission report without mentioning that he himself had voted against it, helping to kill it.

He also made a cornerstone of his argument the claim that Obama "funneled" $716 billion out of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. But he didn't mention that his own budget plan relies on those very same savings.

Ryan also put responsibility for Standard & Poor's downgrade of U.S. government debt at Obama's doorstep. But he didn't mention that S&P itself, in explaining its downgrade, referred to the debt ceiling standoff. That process of raising the debt ceiling was only politicized in the last Congress, driven by House Republicans, led in the charge by Paul Ryan.


The credit rater also said it worried that Republicans would never agree to tax increases. “We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues,” S&P wrote.

Jodie Layton, a convention goer from Utah watching the Ryan speech, said she was blown away by the vice presidential candidate. But she said she was surprised to hear that after his speech about taking responsibility, he'd pinned a Bush-era plant closing on Obama.

"It closed in December 2008?" she asked, making sure she heard a HuffPost reporter's question right. After a long pause, she said, "It's happening a lot on both sides. It's to be expected."

Ryan has referenced the GM plant before, and his attack was debunked by the Detroit News, which called it inaccurate. "In fact, Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office," Detroit News reporter David Sherpardson wrote earlier this month. "Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, but made no promises as Ryan suggested."

After the speech, CNN's political commentators focused mostly on Ryan's misstatements, demonstrating the degree to which they were evident.

Top Obama adviser David Axelrod jumped on the GM factory claim. "Again, Ryan blames Obama for a GM plant that closed under Bush. But then, they did say they wouldn't 'let fact checkers get in the way.'"

Ryan, however, appears to have made the calculation that the misleading won't hurt him with voters. He might be right. CNN's David Gergen, while acknowledging some "misstatements" in Ryan's address, suggested that pundits focus elsewhere. "But let's not forget that this was a speech about big ideas," he told his audience.

UPDATE: For more on the closure process, which was announced in mid-2008, see the local Gazette Xtra. More than 2,000 Janesville GM workers were laid off immediately; another 57 stayed on until April 2009 as production wound down.
Wednesday that if he and his running mate Mitt Rom... (show quote)


Nothing can be said, even the truth, that will make the blind see. There is so much desperation in this election. The reality is that nothing will change and whoever is elected will face the same problems. Everybody wants to pull the wool over each others eyes and nobody wants to look realistically at what is going on. It truly seems that the republicans are lying through there teeth, I even heard Romney call himself a good Christian the other day. This nation if full of fools and desperate people so afraid of there own shadow. The statement, "confuse the people and they will believe anything', is true. As George Orwell said in his book 1984, "tell a lie for a long enough time and it will become the truth". We are seeing the realization of this in the up coming election. There are nothing but lies and deceitful things being done and nothing really makes sense. What fools we are to believe what is being put in front of us, it is truly disgusting.

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Aug 31, 2012 11:57:03   #
HEART Loc: God's Country - COLORADO
 
Does it make a difference when/if a plant closed? Bottom line, jobs are gone. Period. The effects are felt everywhere when that happens. Obama had nearly 4 years to lead a recovery and he's failed. Period. All the blathering reminds me of Clinton defending the word, "is".

Reply
 
 
Aug 31, 2012 12:16:56   #
silver Loc: Santa Monica Ca.
 
HEART wrote:
Does it make a difference when/if a plant closed? Bottom line, jobs are gone. Period. The effects are felt everywhere when that happens. Obama had nearly 4 years to lead a recovery and he's failed. Period. All the blathering reminds me of Clinton defending the word, "is".


Fact, The owners of the plant closed the plant, Obama had nothing to do with it. Does Obama own the company? What nonsense is this. This is total nonsense meant to confuse and divide.

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 12:30:37   #
travelwp Loc: New Jersey
 
Greymule. You made some valid points.

I'll make a bet that you won't post the lies Obama will tell during the DNC. Obama has proven to be the champion liar of politicans in recent years.

I'll be looking for your after DNC post.

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 12:41:04   #
steve40 Loc: Asheville/Canton, NC, USA
 
After the election, all the double swap lies stop. Then you only have the one liar, left to contend with. :)

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 12:43:43   #
Reddog Loc: Southern Calif
 
Why would you assume that? Both sides need to demand the truth and not just clap like trained seals when they are lied to. The work requirement lie continues even after being debunked by everyone.
travelwp wrote:
Greymule. You made some valid points.

I'll make a bet that you won't post the lies Obama will tell during the DNC. Obama has proven to be the champion liar of politicans in recent years.

I'll be looking for your after DNC post.

Reply
 
 
Aug 31, 2012 12:49:01   #
CanonJC
 
greymule wrote:
Wednesday that if he and his running mate Mitt Romney were elected president, they would usher in an ethic of responsibility. The Wisconsin congressman and GOP vice presidential candidate repeatedly chided President Barack Obama for blaming the jobs and housing crises on his predecessor, saying that his habit of "forever shifting blame to the last administration, is getting old. The man assumed office almost four years ago -– isn’t it about time he assumed responsibility?"

Ryan then noted that Obama, while campaigning for president, promised that a GM plant in Wisconsin would not shut down. "That plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight," Ryan said.

Except Obama didn't promise that. And the plant closed in December 2008 -- while George W. Bush was president.

It was just one of several striking and demonstrably misleading elements of Ryan's much-anticipated acceptance speech. And it comes just days after Romney pollster Neil Newhouse warned, defending the campaign's demonstrably false ads claiming Obama removed work requirements from welfare, "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."

Ryan, for his part, slammed the president for not supporting a deficit commission report without mentioning that he himself had voted against it, helping to kill it.

He also made a cornerstone of his argument the claim that Obama "funneled" $716 billion out of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. But he didn't mention that his own budget plan relies on those very same savings.

Ryan also put responsibility for Standard & Poor's downgrade of U.S. government debt at Obama's doorstep. But he didn't mention that S&P itself, in explaining its downgrade, referred to the debt ceiling standoff. That process of raising the debt ceiling was only politicized in the last Congress, driven by House Republicans, led in the charge by Paul Ryan.


The credit rater also said it worried that Republicans would never agree to tax increases. “We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues,” S&P wrote.

Jodie Layton, a convention goer from Utah watching the Ryan speech, said she was blown away by the vice presidential candidate. But she said she was surprised to hear that after his speech about taking responsibility, he'd pinned a Bush-era plant closing on Obama.

"It closed in December 2008?" she asked, making sure she heard a HuffPost reporter's question right. After a long pause, she said, "It's happening a lot on both sides. It's to be expected."

Ryan has referenced the GM plant before, and his attack was debunked by the Detroit News, which called it inaccurate. "In fact, Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office," Detroit News reporter David Sherpardson wrote earlier this month. "Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, but made no promises as Ryan suggested."

After the speech, CNN's political commentators focused mostly on Ryan's misstatements, demonstrating the degree to which they were evident.

Top Obama adviser David Axelrod jumped on the GM factory claim. "Again, Ryan blames Obama for a GM plant that closed under Bush. But then, they did say they wouldn't 'let fact checkers get in the way.'"

Ryan, however, appears to have made the calculation that the misleading won't hurt him with voters. He might be right. CNN's David Gergen, while acknowledging some "misstatements" in Ryan's address, suggested that pundits focus elsewhere. "But let's not forget that this was a speech about big ideas," he told his audience.

UPDATE: For more on the closure process, which was announced in mid-2008, see the local Gazette Xtra. More than 2,000 Janesville GM workers were laid off immediately; another 57 stayed on until April 2009 as production wound down.
Wednesday that if he and his running mate Mitt Rom... (show quote)


Your correctly point is the perfect fact! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 12:49:44   #
ole sarg Loc: south florida
 
Maybe it is viewed as a promise by you but not by me!

Ryan's speech has been torn to pieces by all who have researched it.

It is on par for the GOP campaign so far.

This election will hinge on the debates.

Reply
Aug 31, 2012 12:50:04   #
DennisK Loc: Pickle City,Illinois
 
silver wrote:
HEART wrote:
Does it make a difference when/if a plant closed? Bottom line, jobs are gone. Period. The effects are felt everywhere when that happens. Obama had nearly 4 years to lead a recovery and he's failed. Period. All the blathering reminds me of Clinton defending the word, "is".


Fact, The owners of the plant closed the plant, Obama had nothing to do with it. Does Obama own the company? What nonsense is this. This is total nonsense meant to confuse and divide.
quote=HEART Does it make a difference when/if a p... (show quote)


Yeah well obummer bailed out gm,didn't he?

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Aug 31, 2012 12:56:29   #
Reddog Loc: Southern Calif
 
Thank God he bailed out GM, we wouldn't have an auto industry if left to Romney!

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