Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire When will the lies stop?
Aug 30, 2012 13:54:22 #
Wednesday that if he and his running mate Mitt Romney were elected president, they would usher in an ethic of responsibility. The Wisconsin congressman and GOP vice presidential candidate repeatedly chided President Barack Obama for blaming the jobs and housing crises on his predecessor, saying that his habit of "forever shifting blame to the last administration, is getting old. The man assumed office almost four years ago - isnt it about time he assumed responsibility?"
Ryan then noted that Obama, while campaigning for president, promised that a GM plant in Wisconsin would not shut down. "That plant didnt last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And thats how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight," Ryan said.
Except Obama didn't promise that. And the plant closed in December 2008 -- while George W. Bush was president.
It was just one of several striking and demonstrably misleading elements of Ryan's much-anticipated acceptance speech. And it comes just days after Romney pollster Neil Newhouse warned, defending the campaign's demonstrably false ads claiming Obama removed work requirements from welfare, "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."
Ryan, for his part, slammed the president for not supporting a deficit commission report without mentioning that he himself had voted against it, helping to kill it.
He also made a cornerstone of his argument the claim that Obama "funneled" $716 billion out of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. But he didn't mention that his own budget plan relies on those very same savings.
Ryan also put responsibility for Standard & Poor's downgrade of U.S. government debt at Obama's doorstep. But he didn't mention that S&P itself, in explaining its downgrade, referred to the debt ceiling standoff. That process of raising the debt ceiling was only politicized in the last Congress, driven by House Republicans, led in the charge by Paul Ryan.
The credit rater also said it worried that Republicans would never agree to tax increases. We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, S&P wrote.
Jodie Layton, a convention goer from Utah watching the Ryan speech, said she was blown away by the vice presidential candidate. But she said she was surprised to hear that after his speech about taking responsibility, he'd pinned a Bush-era plant closing on Obama.
"It closed in December 2008?" she asked, making sure she heard a HuffPost reporter's question right. After a long pause, she said, "It's happening a lot on both sides. It's to be expected."
Ryan has referenced the GM plant before, and his attack was debunked by the Detroit News, which called it inaccurate. "In fact, Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office," Detroit News reporter David Sherpardson wrote earlier this month. "Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, but made no promises as Ryan suggested."
After the speech, CNN's political commentators focused mostly on Ryan's misstatements, demonstrating the degree to which they were evident.
Top Obama adviser David Axelrod jumped on the GM factory claim. "Again, Ryan blames Obama for a GM plant that closed under Bush. But then, they did say they wouldn't 'let fact checkers get in the way.'"
Ryan, however, appears to have made the calculation that the misleading won't hurt him with voters. He might be right. CNN's David Gergen, while acknowledging some "misstatements" in Ryan's address, suggested that pundits focus elsewhere. "But let's not forget that this was a speech about big ideas," he told his audience.
UPDATE: For more on the closure process, which was announced in mid-2008, see the local Gazette Xtra. More than 2,000 Janesville GM workers were laid off immediately; another 57 stayed on until April 2009 as production wound down.
Ryan then noted that Obama, while campaigning for president, promised that a GM plant in Wisconsin would not shut down. "That plant didnt last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And thats how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight," Ryan said.
Except Obama didn't promise that. And the plant closed in December 2008 -- while George W. Bush was president.
It was just one of several striking and demonstrably misleading elements of Ryan's much-anticipated acceptance speech. And it comes just days after Romney pollster Neil Newhouse warned, defending the campaign's demonstrably false ads claiming Obama removed work requirements from welfare, "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers."
Ryan, for his part, slammed the president for not supporting a deficit commission report without mentioning that he himself had voted against it, helping to kill it.
He also made a cornerstone of his argument the claim that Obama "funneled" $716 billion out of Medicare to pay for Obamacare. But he didn't mention that his own budget plan relies on those very same savings.
Ryan also put responsibility for Standard & Poor's downgrade of U.S. government debt at Obama's doorstep. But he didn't mention that S&P itself, in explaining its downgrade, referred to the debt ceiling standoff. That process of raising the debt ceiling was only politicized in the last Congress, driven by House Republicans, led in the charge by Paul Ryan.
The credit rater also said it worried that Republicans would never agree to tax increases. We have changed our assumption on [revenue] because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, S&P wrote.
Jodie Layton, a convention goer from Utah watching the Ryan speech, said she was blown away by the vice presidential candidate. But she said she was surprised to hear that after his speech about taking responsibility, he'd pinned a Bush-era plant closing on Obama.
"It closed in December 2008?" she asked, making sure she heard a HuffPost reporter's question right. After a long pause, she said, "It's happening a lot on both sides. It's to be expected."
Ryan has referenced the GM plant before, and his attack was debunked by the Detroit News, which called it inaccurate. "In fact, Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office," Detroit News reporter David Sherpardson wrote earlier this month. "Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, but made no promises as Ryan suggested."
After the speech, CNN's political commentators focused mostly on Ryan's misstatements, demonstrating the degree to which they were evident.
Top Obama adviser David Axelrod jumped on the GM factory claim. "Again, Ryan blames Obama for a GM plant that closed under Bush. But then, they did say they wouldn't 'let fact checkers get in the way.'"
Ryan, however, appears to have made the calculation that the misleading won't hurt him with voters. He might be right. CNN's David Gergen, while acknowledging some "misstatements" in Ryan's address, suggested that pundits focus elsewhere. "But let's not forget that this was a speech about big ideas," he told his audience.
UPDATE: For more on the closure process, which was announced in mid-2008, see the local Gazette Xtra. More than 2,000 Janesville GM workers were laid off immediately; another 57 stayed on until April 2009 as production wound down.
Aug 30, 2012 15:04:43 #
I'm glad that someone else can see through this charlaton. Unfortuantely many of those watching the RNC will believe whatever they hear without ever checking facts and that allows Ryan and his ilk to lie to them with impunity.
Republicans are fond of saying that Democrats and Progressives, "drank the coolaid". Yet they sit there and absorb everything that they are told like lambs being lead to the slaughter.
I dare one republican to defend what Ryan said about the GM plant or to show me facts that it was closed on Obama's watch.
Republicans are fond of saying that Democrats and Progressives, "drank the coolaid". Yet they sit there and absorb everything that they are told like lambs being lead to the slaughter.
I dare one republican to defend what Ryan said about the GM plant or to show me facts that it was closed on Obama's watch.
Aug 30, 2012 16:00:14 #
Kit Lens wrote:
I'm glad that someone else can see through this charlaton. Unfortuantely many of those watching the RNC will believe whatever they hear without ever checking facts and that allows Ryan and his ilk to lie to them with impunity.
Republicans are fond of saying that Democrats and Progressives, "drank the coolaid". Yet they sit there and absorb everything that they are told like lambs being lead to the slaughter.
Republicans are fond of saying that Democrats and Progressives, "drank the coolaid". Yet they sit there and absorb everything that they are told like lambs being lead to the slaughter.
Both parties are like that, they both suck!!! This year for President, we will have the two worst candidates fighting for the Presidency that I can remember in my 55 years. It seems like the two contenders just get worse and worse each election cycle. Basically, now when we vote, our choice really is based on which idiot looks better in the clown suit.
Aug 30, 2012 17:01:46 #
Give me a call the next time the president does not lie to the American people... and the fact is that the president did promise the people of Janesville that if elected that he would keep that plant open... Once elected he did not see fit to help those people during his $50 billion give away to the UAW..
Aug 30, 2012 21:20:53 #
Blurryeyed wrote:
Give me a call the next time the president does not lie to the American people... and the fact is that the president did promise the people of Janesville that if elected that he would keep that plant open... Once elected he did not see fit to help those people during his $50 billion give away to the UAW..
From PolitiFact.com
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/aug/29/paul-ryan/did-barack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/
Our rating
Ryan said Obama broke his promise to keep a Wisconsin GM plant from closing. But we don't see evidence he explicitly made such a promise -- and more importantly, the Janesville plant shut down before he took office.
We rate Ryan's statement False.
Aug 30, 2012 22:04:14 #
Aug 31, 2012 00:00:16 #
Excerpts from:
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/janesville-gm-plant-closed-2009-after-obama-promised-save-it
Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years. That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that's how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
"But Ryan is in fact correct. The Janesville GM factory stopped production of SUVs in December 2008 and closed its doors for good in 2009 less than one year after Obama promised to keep it open for another hundred years."
Please, do your own homework.
And, never take the media or "fact checkers" word for it. They are always biased.
And, make sure you're comprehending fully what is actually being said. For yourself, not what someone else says is being said.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/janesville-gm-plant-closed-2009-after-obama-promised-save-it
Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: I believe that if our government is there to support you ... this plant will be here for another hundred years. That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that's how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.
"But Ryan is in fact correct. The Janesville GM factory stopped production of SUVs in December 2008 and closed its doors for good in 2009 less than one year after Obama promised to keep it open for another hundred years."
Please, do your own homework.
And, never take the media or "fact checkers" word for it. They are always biased.
And, make sure you're comprehending fully what is actually being said. For yourself, not what someone else says is being said.
Aug 31, 2012 06:17:00 #
LOL now the fact checkers are lying! REALLY!
Joyfullee wrote:
Excerpts from: br br http://cnsnews.com/news/arti... (show quote)
Aug 31, 2012 06:35:22 #
Sorry people! Even the main stream media has now agreed that Ryan was right. Obama did promise to keep the plant open after he took office. Better check your own facts and stop relying on your propaganda operatives.
Aug 31, 2012 07:12:48 #
Reddog wrote:
LOL now the fact checkers are lying! REALLY! quote... (show quote)
It all depends on which "fact checker" you agree with. Greymule doesn't believe in checking facts at all.
However, according to this "fact checker" the Janesville plant isn't really closed. It is on what GM calls standby and did not cease production until April 2009.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-shepherd/2012/08/30/nbc-newss-mark-murray-more-nuanced-janesville-gm-plant-closing-msnbc-c
It is also quite interesting that GM is, again, on a collision course with Chapter 11.
Aug 31, 2012 08:38:14 #
Reinr
Loc: Staffordshire. UK
Politics and lies go hand in hand, not only in the States, but here in the UK as well. No matter what the result in any election, it is the people who have to pay the ultimate price when things go wrong.
Aug 31, 2012 08:48:34 #
Aug 31, 2012 09:17:58 #
In February 2008, CANDIDATE Obama made a speech in Janesville Wisconsin. He wasn't even the presumptive nominee at that point. This is the transcript of the part of the speech that we're talking about.
"This can be Americas future. I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress youve made how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles youre churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, its where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and thats the future Ill fight for as your President."
Could someone show me the word "promise" in that paragraph.
Better yet, could I get an English to English interpreter to read that paragraph and explain it to me where he made the "promise" to keep that plant open?
"This can be Americas future. I know that General Motors received some bad news yesterday, and I know how hard your Governor has fought to keep jobs in this plant. But I also know how much progress youve made how many hybrids and fuel-efficient vehicles youre churning out. And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, its where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and thats the future Ill fight for as your President."
Could someone show me the word "promise" in that paragraph.
Better yet, could I get an English to English interpreter to read that paragraph and explain it to me where he made the "promise" to keep that plant open?
Aug 31, 2012 10:04:13 #
This is the first time since 1960 that I have been so appalled at the choices, if I may use that word, being submitted as "Presidential Candidates". Too bad we can't vote "none of the above" and get a "do-over".
Aug 31, 2012 10:33:00 #
the_imaginist wrote:
In February 2008, CANDIDATE Obama made a speech in... (show quote)
In plain everyday language,when a candidate for a high level position makes a statement like this,it is viewed as a promise of what he/she plans to do.
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