Gary Fong Diffusers
Apr 16, 2019 12:44:06 #
Well Gene51 and I disagree on this one. While bouncing light is a partial solution to softening the light from your flash, the effect is highly dependent on what the light is bouncing off of. How high is the ceiling, what shape does it have, what about the color? Using a diffuser is way less dependent on those factors even when you do use the bounce method. And honestly, even bouncing an undiffused light source can still create an image with the just 'flashed' look. I use Stofen diffusers on my speedlight. They're small, custom fit to my light and come in colors to match the ambient light. And most importantly, they create a soft natural light.
Apr 16, 2019 13:03:04 #
photoman022
Loc: Manchester CT USA
I agree with the points that you don't always have something to bounce off of. Instead of the BFT, I have a WFT. I went to Walmart and bought piece of white foam(y thing) and some velcro. I made a modifier that reflects my on-camera flash forward. It's a bigger light source than my on-camera flash; it's reflected; it doesn't cause red-eye; it give decent light and will even give a catch light in the eyes.
Apr 16, 2019 13:24:54 #
I love talking about flash technique and light modifiers but it is hard to advise anyone, including the OP. when they don't specify what kind of photography the intend using a modifier for and under what shooting conditions, the environment they will be working in and what kind of flash equipment they have.
To select a good modifier for your purposes, you have to be able to assess exactly what the function of any given modifier is, how it works, and what are its attributes and limitations. To do this, you also have to have a good understanding of the dynamics of light as to the angle of incidence, the inverse square principle, diffusion, reflectivity, and the relationship of size and distance of the flash/modifier to any given subject.
There is no one "magic" modifier or system that will convert a speedlight, atop your camera, into a perfect aesthetically pleasing light source for portraiture, photography of objects, interior architecture or as a flash fill or natural light augmentation source when working out-of-doors. In fact, all of them ARE indeed a bunch of "plastic toys, that is, unless you know exactly how to use and apply them as per some of the aforementioned principles.
There are lots of misconceptions about modifiers. Some profess that they are used to "eliminate shadows" when in fact certain shadows are desirable in photography where light and shadow create dimension, shape modeling and drama. You do want to eliminate or modify the "bad" shadows that cause distraction or obscure wanted details. Placing the flash unit on a bracket, elevating it above the lens, will sometimes negate the undesirable shades on a background or wall that sometimes results in form on-camera flash usage and may slightly increase the depth of lighting and modeling but it is still flat lighting.
When we place a white or clear translucent plastic or cloth DIFFUSER in front of the speedlight it may soften and scatter the light somewhat and perhaps spread it out a bit more but this does not significantly enlarge its SIZE in relation to the subject. The larger the light source, in this relationship, the softer and perhaps the more natural the resulting light will look. The light is softer and may cover a little more of the field in your frame but it is still flat. It won't to take on dimension and modeling unless it is off camera and striking the subject form an angle odd the camera/subject axis. Some of the larger "scoop" paddle-shaped, mini- umbrellas or softbox configurations of modifiers do enlarge the light source.
It is true that we can negate the modifier and simply direct the speedlight at a wall or ceiling where the speedlight becomes the primary source of light energy and the wall or ceiling or another surface becomes the secondary source which is wider and softer. The secondary source then becomes the primary source form a standpoint of aesthetics and coverage. Now, the light is striking the subject form an oblique angle and will provide more dimension and modeling. This can work well of these surfaces are available in close enough proximity to the speedlight and subject and is white or near white and has adequate reflectivity. These conditions. however, may not exist in a large interior such as a church or a large function room and of course, not out-of-doors. Obviously, no walls or ceiling or ones that are too far away offer no practical BOUNCE surface so the modifier we use has to be a "portable" bounce surface large enough to increase the relative size of the source and scatter, soften spread the light a bit more.
The other major factor is DISTANCE. The closer the lig the softer the light is a general rule of thumb. So for example, ... a relative large modifier like a 24" white umbrella a few feet away from the subject will provide a very soft light source, however, at 15 or 20 feet away, it would not have a nearly as significant effect. A modifier with say, an 8" bounce surface such as theses light benders. etc, at fairly close distance the should offer a noticeable softness and spread of light but at 10' or more away, all they are doing is cost you a couple of f/stops. And...so far, the light is still atop the camera and is somewhat flat.
There are some modifiers that direct some of the light forward and some up at the ceiling. There are others that claim to provide omnidirectional lighting. Again, their effectiveness depends very much on all of the same aforementioned principles. If the necessary reflective sources are not there the light is just being diminished in power and adding no aesthetic improvement. Like an old mentor of mine used to say "it's like flatulence in a windstorm- nobody knows it's there"- that's my polite interpretation.
Once you understand some of these principles, all you will need to do is examine any particular modifier and know exactly what it can or can't do. There are many brands and configuration of modifiers on the market, but none of the NAMES have any significance to me until I see them and more importantly, may have an opportunity to test them under the conditions and circumstances under which I am going to employ them.
As for the Fong stuff, you have to understand that Gary started off as a wedding photographer and required modifiers that indeed were self-contained and portable and would perform to HIS standards in many different settings- homes, churches, reception venues and out-of-doors. I used a few of them and found them to be effective in SOME certain settings. My own on-location working methods for weddings and other events are far different from Gary's in that I always use multiple flashes when I am using flash so my requirements are different.
Just about anything you stick in front of your speedlight or bounce it off is gonna have some effect or affect. The best results are obtained by analyzing the situation and applying the most practical and feasible method and gear at your disposal and applying the principles.
The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. This is important because you need to know where your light is coming from and where it is gonna end up. The has to do with the workings of any modifier. and equally as important, where the lights or lights are placed in relation to the subject. (See attached diagrams). If it goes to the wrong place it can under-illuminate the subject or cause dark shadows in the subject's eye sockets as the ligh skims the mask of the face from directly overhead, of but does not illuminate the eyes and the orbital areas of the face.
Another consideration is the mechanical properties of any modifier. In a studio environment under controlled conditions just about anything, pre-manufactured improvised, will stand up to the task. For photojournalism, wedding photography, location fashion work, etc., shoever, you need modifiers that will stand up top hard usage, remain secured to the lights, not fall off at inopportune moments and not upset the center of gravity or balance of your handheld setup. You may want something that pops on and off the flash unit quickly and easily and looks " professional". Running around at an event venue with "Tupperware" or a Rube Goldberg kinda contraption may not be a great PR idea.
There are many ways (not only the ones shown in the diagrams) of simply bouncing light using existing walls and ceilings. Understanding how the angle of incidence principle effect and how this is done is correctly is the key to successful lighting in this particular method. An excerpt from an old flash manual is a good starting point so I have attached a few diagrams.
What modifiers basically do is redirect and scatter the light and sometimes further defuse it via a scrim on the front panel of the unit- such as how soft-box works. The basic concept of ceiling bounce is to simulate non-directional light as you would see from even natural skylight. Wall bounce is more directional. Modeling. dimension and drama are the function of light placement off the camera or directional bounce. Knowing these principles puts you in command, so...ladies and gentlemen "choose your weapons", that is modifiers and the way you use them.
More shocking news from me. I think today's small speedlights, love 'em as I do, are also expensive "plastic toys". I do have several of them and I must admit, for their size and power they do work surprisingly well especaill with all their TTL integration with modern digital cameras. For serious handheld location work, I still go to the "old school" portables which are currently produced by folks like Lumadyne, Norman, and Quantum- and there are a few nice new imports form Godox!. Lamp head size and design is my main concern. A speedlight has an average lamp-housing size of 2.5", a small linear flash tube, a usually highly polished rectangular reflector and a plastic diffuser up front. The older traditional units have a 4" to 5" interchangeable round/parabolic reflectors, some have spun aluminum, crinkled or matte, and larger helical flash tubes. Parabolic reflectors have certain advantageous properties that are illustrated in one of the attached diagrams. This enables feathering, which is an important element in portrait lighting and parietal bounce flash. Remember- "size counts" about twice the size of a speedlight with a different tube/reflector design. Bare tube operation can be enabled for true omnidirectional lighting when applicable. These units are many times more powerful so the is plenty of power for a wide variety of indirect and modified lighting techniques.
Perhaps this is TMI but think it is important to inform folks on the underlying information rather than just pick or pan any particular brand or suggest a single method of bounce flash that may not always apply or be doable in many circumstances. It's like filters- you want the right kinds and good ones! Y'all have spent a great deal of money on a good camera and a reliable speedlight. Modifiers are relatively inexpensive but a poor choice or not understanding the principles may yield disappointing results.
To select a good modifier for your purposes, you have to be able to assess exactly what the function of any given modifier is, how it works, and what are its attributes and limitations. To do this, you also have to have a good understanding of the dynamics of light as to the angle of incidence, the inverse square principle, diffusion, reflectivity, and the relationship of size and distance of the flash/modifier to any given subject.
There is no one "magic" modifier or system that will convert a speedlight, atop your camera, into a perfect aesthetically pleasing light source for portraiture, photography of objects, interior architecture or as a flash fill or natural light augmentation source when working out-of-doors. In fact, all of them ARE indeed a bunch of "plastic toys, that is, unless you know exactly how to use and apply them as per some of the aforementioned principles.
There are lots of misconceptions about modifiers. Some profess that they are used to "eliminate shadows" when in fact certain shadows are desirable in photography where light and shadow create dimension, shape modeling and drama. You do want to eliminate or modify the "bad" shadows that cause distraction or obscure wanted details. Placing the flash unit on a bracket, elevating it above the lens, will sometimes negate the undesirable shades on a background or wall that sometimes results in form on-camera flash usage and may slightly increase the depth of lighting and modeling but it is still flat lighting.
When we place a white or clear translucent plastic or cloth DIFFUSER in front of the speedlight it may soften and scatter the light somewhat and perhaps spread it out a bit more but this does not significantly enlarge its SIZE in relation to the subject. The larger the light source, in this relationship, the softer and perhaps the more natural the resulting light will look. The light is softer and may cover a little more of the field in your frame but it is still flat. It won't to take on dimension and modeling unless it is off camera and striking the subject form an angle odd the camera/subject axis. Some of the larger "scoop" paddle-shaped, mini- umbrellas or softbox configurations of modifiers do enlarge the light source.
It is true that we can negate the modifier and simply direct the speedlight at a wall or ceiling where the speedlight becomes the primary source of light energy and the wall or ceiling or another surface becomes the secondary source which is wider and softer. The secondary source then becomes the primary source form a standpoint of aesthetics and coverage. Now, the light is striking the subject form an oblique angle and will provide more dimension and modeling. This can work well of these surfaces are available in close enough proximity to the speedlight and subject and is white or near white and has adequate reflectivity. These conditions. however, may not exist in a large interior such as a church or a large function room and of course, not out-of-doors. Obviously, no walls or ceiling or ones that are too far away offer no practical BOUNCE surface so the modifier we use has to be a "portable" bounce surface large enough to increase the relative size of the source and scatter, soften spread the light a bit more.
The other major factor is DISTANCE. The closer the lig the softer the light is a general rule of thumb. So for example, ... a relative large modifier like a 24" white umbrella a few feet away from the subject will provide a very soft light source, however, at 15 or 20 feet away, it would not have a nearly as significant effect. A modifier with say, an 8" bounce surface such as theses light benders. etc, at fairly close distance the should offer a noticeable softness and spread of light but at 10' or more away, all they are doing is cost you a couple of f/stops. And...so far, the light is still atop the camera and is somewhat flat.
There are some modifiers that direct some of the light forward and some up at the ceiling. There are others that claim to provide omnidirectional lighting. Again, their effectiveness depends very much on all of the same aforementioned principles. If the necessary reflective sources are not there the light is just being diminished in power and adding no aesthetic improvement. Like an old mentor of mine used to say "it's like flatulence in a windstorm- nobody knows it's there"- that's my polite interpretation.
Once you understand some of these principles, all you will need to do is examine any particular modifier and know exactly what it can or can't do. There are many brands and configuration of modifiers on the market, but none of the NAMES have any significance to me until I see them and more importantly, may have an opportunity to test them under the conditions and circumstances under which I am going to employ them.
As for the Fong stuff, you have to understand that Gary started off as a wedding photographer and required modifiers that indeed were self-contained and portable and would perform to HIS standards in many different settings- homes, churches, reception venues and out-of-doors. I used a few of them and found them to be effective in SOME certain settings. My own on-location working methods for weddings and other events are far different from Gary's in that I always use multiple flashes when I am using flash so my requirements are different.
Just about anything you stick in front of your speedlight or bounce it off is gonna have some effect or affect. The best results are obtained by analyzing the situation and applying the most practical and feasible method and gear at your disposal and applying the principles.
The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. This is important because you need to know where your light is coming from and where it is gonna end up. The has to do with the workings of any modifier. and equally as important, where the lights or lights are placed in relation to the subject. (See attached diagrams). If it goes to the wrong place it can under-illuminate the subject or cause dark shadows in the subject's eye sockets as the ligh skims the mask of the face from directly overhead, of but does not illuminate the eyes and the orbital areas of the face.
Another consideration is the mechanical properties of any modifier. In a studio environment under controlled conditions just about anything, pre-manufactured improvised, will stand up to the task. For photojournalism, wedding photography, location fashion work, etc., shoever, you need modifiers that will stand up top hard usage, remain secured to the lights, not fall off at inopportune moments and not upset the center of gravity or balance of your handheld setup. You may want something that pops on and off the flash unit quickly and easily and looks " professional". Running around at an event venue with "Tupperware" or a Rube Goldberg kinda contraption may not be a great PR idea.
There are many ways (not only the ones shown in the diagrams) of simply bouncing light using existing walls and ceilings. Understanding how the angle of incidence principle effect and how this is done is correctly is the key to successful lighting in this particular method. An excerpt from an old flash manual is a good starting point so I have attached a few diagrams.
What modifiers basically do is redirect and scatter the light and sometimes further defuse it via a scrim on the front panel of the unit- such as how soft-box works. The basic concept of ceiling bounce is to simulate non-directional light as you would see from even natural skylight. Wall bounce is more directional. Modeling. dimension and drama are the function of light placement off the camera or directional bounce. Knowing these principles puts you in command, so...ladies and gentlemen "choose your weapons", that is modifiers and the way you use them.
More shocking news from me. I think today's small speedlights, love 'em as I do, are also expensive "plastic toys". I do have several of them and I must admit, for their size and power they do work surprisingly well especaill with all their TTL integration with modern digital cameras. For serious handheld location work, I still go to the "old school" portables which are currently produced by folks like Lumadyne, Norman, and Quantum- and there are a few nice new imports form Godox!. Lamp head size and design is my main concern. A speedlight has an average lamp-housing size of 2.5", a small linear flash tube, a usually highly polished rectangular reflector and a plastic diffuser up front. The older traditional units have a 4" to 5" interchangeable round/parabolic reflectors, some have spun aluminum, crinkled or matte, and larger helical flash tubes. Parabolic reflectors have certain advantageous properties that are illustrated in one of the attached diagrams. This enables feathering, which is an important element in portrait lighting and parietal bounce flash. Remember- "size counts" about twice the size of a speedlight with a different tube/reflector design. Bare tube operation can be enabled for true omnidirectional lighting when applicable. These units are many times more powerful so the is plenty of power for a wide variety of indirect and modified lighting techniques.
Perhaps this is TMI but think it is important to inform folks on the underlying information rather than just pick or pan any particular brand or suggest a single method of bounce flash that may not always apply or be doable in many circumstances. It's like filters- you want the right kinds and good ones! Y'all have spent a great deal of money on a good camera and a reliable speedlight. Modifiers are relatively inexpensive but a poor choice or not understanding the principles may yield disappointing results.
Apr 16, 2019 13:24:57 #
The first time I saw a Fong thing I thought: "I need one of those".
After thinking about it for a while I thought: "No way I'm going to spend my money on one of those".
I had been doing a lot of bounce flash and it worked fairly well until I encountered 30 foot ceilings or outdoor shots. I needed something to mimic bounce flash under those conditions.
Basically, bounce flash is taking your speedlight (about the size of a business card in area) and changing it into a very large light source by aiming it away from the subject onto a large area. Ceilings and walls are generally used. The speedlight illuminates a large area of the wall or ceiling and that light is diffused and creates soft shadows or if the illuminated area is large enough, no shadows at all. Of course if the ceiling or wall has a strong color, you will have to compensate somehow, but most such surfaces are not really that well defined a color so a grey card would give you a way to adjust the color balance.
The Fong thingy that I saw basically threw the light around in all directions. I believe the speedlight by itself does a better job because (assuming you have a speedlight that will aim up, backwards, or to either side) you can aim it at the specific surface you want to bounce off of. If you toss the light around the whole 4pi steradians, you are going to waste a significant part of it.
So for the 30 foot high ceilings and bright red walls I built my own compromise light modifier. Basically a portable bounce surface. It was an 8.5x11 sheet of white card stock. Made a couple of cuts in one end to make some tabs that I could wrap around my speedlight and hold it on with a rubber band.
It worked fairly well (it increased the size of the light source significantly, softening the shadows, but it was not really all that large so the shadows were sometimes still obtrusive). Also it was kind of flimsy and got bent up a lot. Then it looked distinctly nonprofessional. That didn't bother me too much since I'm pretty nonprofessional myself.
A couple years ago I got a Spinlite 360. It's a gadget that has a velcro strap (instead of a rubber band) to attach a frame to the speedlight. A white card slips into a slot in the framework so it looks very much like the paper reflector. The difference is that the framework can rotate 360 degrees so the white card can act as a reflector or a baffle, and can direct diffuse light to the side or back as well as forward. The fancy model has a couple different sizes of cards and some diffusers that you can use along with the card.
It's still a fairly small diffuser-reflector so it doesn't help with the size of the light source but it's really convenient when you want to redirect the light. Of course the paper thing is much cheaper (I just looked it up [20190416] and it was about US$59-149 depending on the model [plus shipping, handling, and tax, of course]). Anyway I quit carrying paper card stock and rubber bands around. The Spinlite 360 is a nice professional looking toy tool.
After thinking about it for a while I thought: "No way I'm going to spend my money on one of those".
I had been doing a lot of bounce flash and it worked fairly well until I encountered 30 foot ceilings or outdoor shots. I needed something to mimic bounce flash under those conditions.
Basically, bounce flash is taking your speedlight (about the size of a business card in area) and changing it into a very large light source by aiming it away from the subject onto a large area. Ceilings and walls are generally used. The speedlight illuminates a large area of the wall or ceiling and that light is diffused and creates soft shadows or if the illuminated area is large enough, no shadows at all. Of course if the ceiling or wall has a strong color, you will have to compensate somehow, but most such surfaces are not really that well defined a color so a grey card would give you a way to adjust the color balance.
The Fong thingy that I saw basically threw the light around in all directions. I believe the speedlight by itself does a better job because (assuming you have a speedlight that will aim up, backwards, or to either side) you can aim it at the specific surface you want to bounce off of. If you toss the light around the whole 4pi steradians, you are going to waste a significant part of it.
So for the 30 foot high ceilings and bright red walls I built my own compromise light modifier. Basically a portable bounce surface. It was an 8.5x11 sheet of white card stock. Made a couple of cuts in one end to make some tabs that I could wrap around my speedlight and hold it on with a rubber band.
It worked fairly well (it increased the size of the light source significantly, softening the shadows, but it was not really all that large so the shadows were sometimes still obtrusive). Also it was kind of flimsy and got bent up a lot. Then it looked distinctly nonprofessional. That didn't bother me too much since I'm pretty nonprofessional myself.
A couple years ago I got a Spinlite 360. It's a gadget that has a velcro strap (instead of a rubber band) to attach a frame to the speedlight. A white card slips into a slot in the framework so it looks very much like the paper reflector. The difference is that the framework can rotate 360 degrees so the white card can act as a reflector or a baffle, and can direct diffuse light to the side or back as well as forward. The fancy model has a couple different sizes of cards and some diffusers that you can use along with the card.
It's still a fairly small diffuser-reflector so it doesn't help with the size of the light source but it's really convenient when you want to redirect the light. Of course the paper thing is much cheaper (I just looked it up [20190416] and it was about US$59-149 depending on the model [plus shipping, handling, and tax, of course]). Anyway I quit carrying paper card stock and rubber bands around. The Spinlite 360 is a nice professional looking toy tool.
Apr 16, 2019 14:28:03 #
carl hervol
Loc: jacksonville florida
I liked the fong I used it all the time doing weddings it worked great I have 4 different kinds but I liked the fong dome not sure what it called, buy one of each there not expensive and choose for your self it depends on what I'm doing determines which one I use PS ever one has there preference so make up your own mind .
'
"
'
"
Apr 16, 2019 14:35:29 #
JeffinMass
Loc: MA
Thank you for all the replies. As usual there are differences of opinions here. I actually saw a few YouTube videos and they show there are improvements with the Fong. They were not done by Fong and they showed examples. I would say that each company that produces diffusers think theirs is the best. I know a pro who has had and used one for years and still does.
Apr 16, 2019 15:55:22 #
I have Lightsphere and it works MUCH better than just bouncing your flash. Don’t get a knock off from EBay. Get the real thing and pay the $60. They are worth it!!! I challenge the Non-believers to get the same results by just “bouncing” their flash. They can’t!
Apr 16, 2019 16:48:18 #
carl hervol wrote:
I liked the fong I used it all the time doing weddings it worked great I have 4 different kinds but I liked the fong dome not sure what it called, buy one of each there not expensive and choose for your self it depends on what I'm doing determines which one I use PS ever one has there preference so make up your own mind .
'
"
'
"
Apr 16, 2019 18:45:43 #
Apr 16, 2019 20:58:43 #
Apr 17, 2019 11:45:01 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I love talking about flash technique and light mod... (show quote)
Hi E.L., That is as complete a discussion on artificial lighting as I have read in any text! The issue, however, isn't whether a speedlight can compete with a good studio light setup, portable or otherwise. Most times my SB600 is the only light I have, you can't set up lights when you're a guest at a wedding, or when you're on a walking garden tour and you need a fill light, or when you're following kids around at a birthday party. In those situations the only modifier you can use is one of those "plastic toys." The Stofen diffusers work well and, unlike the other products patched together with Velcro or rubber bands, they look professional. That's my assessment.
Apr 17, 2019 14:54:20 #
I've read all the comments and watched the video but what do you use in a family situation say when it's not possible to bounce and you still need to diffuse the flash light. I guess one way is to keep reducing the flash power in manual until you get it right but people will not wait around for that to happen in practice.
Apr 17, 2019 15:13:55 #
huntmj wrote:
I've read all the comments and watched the video but what do you use in a family situation say when it's not possible to bounce and you still need to diffuse the flash light. I guess one way is to keep reducing the flash power in manual until you get it right but people will not wait around for that to happen in practice.
You are talking about the same situation as a wedding . . . constant change of room sizes and color of walls, distance from subjects, etc.
That's why I settled on the Lite-Scoop as the best of the many that I have tried. With their recommended camera and flash setting, I rarely have a wrong exposure (TTL - ISO 400 - 1/200th shutter and about F/4.5 to F/5.6) I can't remember the last time I had a blown out wedding dress . . . and although there are still shadows, none of them are harsh or objectionable.
Looks professional and never falls off the flash and rolls down the sloped floor of the church :-)
By the way . . reducing the flash power does not change the harshness of shadows or soften the light in any way. To reduce power of flash, rather than changing the power manually, the easier, more efficient method is to adjust the FEC (flash exposure compensation)
Hope that helps.
Apr 19, 2019 18:45:35 #
Architect1776 wrote:
I have and use the Lightsphere collapsible dome.
Works very well.
It was recommended by a real pro who was using one. He has been in the business over 40 years now and has a thriving business. So I figured he knows and his work is excellent.
I also like it very well and it is quite versatile.
Works very well.
It was recommended by a real pro who was using one. He has been in the business over 40 years now and has a thriving business. So I figured he knows and his work is excellent.
I also like it very well and it is quite versatile.
I agree. Wondering how they may back up their bullshit comments? How is it "junk?" I am wondering how many of the naysayers have actually ever USED the item? I had the original, then the collapsible, which was a HUGE improvement over the original. Even a novice can get excellent results. I used it for HUNDREDS of weddings and events. Excellent results always.
Apr 19, 2019 18:46:32 #
ClarkG wrote:
I have Lightsphere and it works MUCH better than just bouncing your flash. Don’t get a knock off from EBay. Get the real thing and pay the $60. They are worth it!!! I challenge the Non-believers to get the same results by just “bouncing” their flash. They can’t!
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