What are the facts?
Dec 22, 2012 08:15:13 #
I have read on several different venues in the past week that the 2nd amendment means that a citizen is allowed to carry a weapon equivalent to what the military has. I am not going to be facetious and start referring to hand grenades. rocket propelled grenades, ad infinitum. I am asking about firearms. Does anyone know of any court ruling that states this to be the meaning of the 2nd amendment? If this is true then would it be construed to mean that civilians can carry equivalent type firearms with a selector switch so they can fire in either a semi-automatic or full auto mode, or as the present issued weapons in a three shot burst? This is the first I have heard of this equivalency provision. I am thinking it is a figment of someone's imagination.
Dec 22, 2012 09:27:06 #
God, guns again, have not enough children and people been killed there, and don't give me the carp about it is the person not the gun, if the people could not GET the gun it could not be used
Dec 22, 2012 09:29:04 #
Being an ex service member for many years, I see no reason for any civilian to utilize a high rate of fire weapon with clips of ammo. There is no reason except that persons fantasy with automatic weapons.
Then again, the ones with Aluminum Hats say they need the automatic weapons to use when they, in the future, will have to overthrow a bad government.
Take your choice.
Sarge69
Then again, the ones with Aluminum Hats say they need the automatic weapons to use when they, in the future, will have to overthrow a bad government.
Take your choice.
Sarge69
Dec 22, 2012 11:06:48 #
JR1 wrote:
God, guns again, have not enough children and people been killed there, and don't give me the carp about it is the person not the gun, if the people could not GET the gun it could not be used
I am sorry if you misunderstood my question. I was only inquiringly because this has been mentioned in several arenas as of late and I had never heard of such a thing. I never implied in any way that anyone had this right or that I thought they did or should.
Dec 22, 2012 16:24:59 #
dragonfist wrote:
I have read on several different venues in the pas... (show quote)
Can you site a news source?
Dec 22, 2012 18:47:00 #
St3v3M wrote:
quote=dragonfist I have read on several different... (show quote)
A news source is not where I got it. It was from comments made on Yahoo and I simply can not believe the people knew what they were talking about. That is why I asked if anyone knew of a court ruling to this affect. I have never heard of such a thing and I am forced to believe that some of the pro gun clique are making things up as they go along. Right now I think they are in an indefensible position and are making things up to try and get folks to believe they have rights that they don't or have never been ruled on by a court.
Dec 22, 2012 18:49:18 #
dragonfist wrote:
quote=St3v3M quote=dragonfist I have read on sev... (show quote)
That is what I meant. Can you site a news source? If not then it is rumor and gossip.
Dec 22, 2012 18:55:40 #
St3v3M wrote:
quote=dragonfist quote=St3v3M quote=dragonfist ... (show quote)
True, but then we all miss things in the news from time to time so possibly someone had seen something I missed somewhere. I am just trying to find out if there is any truth to the statements some of those folks are making. Also remember you can't rely on news sources to always be truthful either.
Dec 22, 2012 18:58:34 #
well to begin with.
Fact one, standard issue Military weapons are ASSUALT weapons, select fire. M14, M16, M1 M1 Garand Etc.
That means automatic fire capabilities, Strictly forbidden to public.
Military handguns are the same as civilians can buy over the counter for the most part. Standard 38 and 9mm ammo ( which, strangely enough are the same size bullet.)
Civilians are not permited to own M79 grenade launchers, M203 Grenade launchers, Red Eye rockets or other tactical ordnance. 20mm miniguns and the sort.
Equally strange, if you have the financial means you can buy a 50 cal Barrett, shoots the same 50 cal round M2 machine guns fire. ( I want to say 750 grains moving at 2900 feet per second or half a mile a second more or less)
When the nation was founded there were no differences between military and civilian fire arms. I do not know what laws pertained to owning Gattling Guns and Artilery
Fact one, standard issue Military weapons are ASSUALT weapons, select fire. M14, M16, M1 M1 Garand Etc.
That means automatic fire capabilities, Strictly forbidden to public.
Military handguns are the same as civilians can buy over the counter for the most part. Standard 38 and 9mm ammo ( which, strangely enough are the same size bullet.)
Civilians are not permited to own M79 grenade launchers, M203 Grenade launchers, Red Eye rockets or other tactical ordnance. 20mm miniguns and the sort.
Equally strange, if you have the financial means you can buy a 50 cal Barrett, shoots the same 50 cal round M2 machine guns fire. ( I want to say 750 grains moving at 2900 feet per second or half a mile a second more or less)
When the nation was founded there were no differences between military and civilian fire arms. I do not know what laws pertained to owning Gattling Guns and Artilery
Dec 22, 2012 19:04:50 #
sarge69 wrote:
Being an ex service member for many years, I see no reason for any civilian to utilize a high rate of fire weapon with clips of ammo. There is no reason except that persons fantasy with automatic weapons.
Then again, the ones with Aluminum Hats say they need the automatic weapons to use when they, in the future, will have to overthrow a bad government.
Take your choice.
Sarge69
Then again, the ones with Aluminum Hats say they need the automatic weapons to use when they, in the future, will have to overthrow a bad government.
Take your choice.
Sarge69
I believe Sarge means Magazines, Clips are what loads ammo in to magazines, as in stripper clips etc
Dec 22, 2012 23:34:44 #
1st off fully automatic weapons are illegal and have been since 1936. You must have a federal class three firearm license to posses them. There are collectors, there are even businesses where you can rent say a tommy gun buy the ammo and go to their range!
sarge 69 this is the first time I gotta disagree with you. The 2nd amendment which the supreme court last year stated was an individual right just like all the other amendments means that the choice to carry semi automatics is perfectly legal. Far more people die from car accidents and drunk drivers and owning a car is a privilege not a right. since the maximum speed limit is 85, all cars should be equipped with governors that limit speed like requiring small magazines for firearms. Then when you consider how damaging consumption of alcohol is, and the billions of dollars damage to peoples lives and reputations, clearly public safety requires us to bring back PROHIBITION. again owning booze is not a constitutional right. If one is really concerned with protecting innocent children then we need to pass a constitutional amendment that legislates that life begins at conception and prohibiting abortion except to save the life of the mother. Planned Parenthood has brutally murdered more innocent children then all firearms combined.
I do not wear a tin foil hat, yet I can see the federal government getting so oppressive that we have no choice but revolt. Look at how bungled the feds were at Waco. both the in ital raid and the raid where the FBI did not even have an on scene fire truck and basically let the branch davidians burn alive. Without Waco, there would not have been Oklahoma City bombing. look at ruby ridge, look at wounded knee, the FBI record on civil rights is pathetic. Look how they handled the elian Gonzalez case. If you research the second amendment you will find that our founding fathers intended for the armed American citizen to be the last check and balance against government tyranny. Thomas Jefferson said the tree of liberty must be watered with blood. He expected every so often a revolution to keep the government honest.
why do you think the uber liberals/ socialists are so hot to ban guns? They know that their dream of a socialist US can not be realized as long as the red states citizens are armed. Why is it that only on the left coast and only in new england is gun banning semi popular. In pro hunting mid west, west and the south guns are a part of our heritage. Obama is already trampling on the religious freedom of catholics and all religious institutions that are opposed to abortion by having that mandate to provide med insurance to cover birth control and abortions. He already has by imperial decree circumvented Congress's constitutional authority to regulate immigration by illegally giving amnesty to criminals. ( This alone is grounds for IMPEACHMENT.) There is coming quickly a day when the rights of those who believe in traditional American values will be so oppressed that the red states will bring back an old familiar institution namely the CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA. That is why we need to prevent gun grabbing liberals from taking away our ability to defend ourselves.Without the 2nd amendment to keep the feds in line just how long do you think you would still have your 1st amendment, or your 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizures, or your 5 amendment right to not incriminate one self, or a right to a jury trial. As Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death"! As Senator Barry Goldwater said. moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue, and extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice."
sarge 69 this is the first time I gotta disagree with you. The 2nd amendment which the supreme court last year stated was an individual right just like all the other amendments means that the choice to carry semi automatics is perfectly legal. Far more people die from car accidents and drunk drivers and owning a car is a privilege not a right. since the maximum speed limit is 85, all cars should be equipped with governors that limit speed like requiring small magazines for firearms. Then when you consider how damaging consumption of alcohol is, and the billions of dollars damage to peoples lives and reputations, clearly public safety requires us to bring back PROHIBITION. again owning booze is not a constitutional right. If one is really concerned with protecting innocent children then we need to pass a constitutional amendment that legislates that life begins at conception and prohibiting abortion except to save the life of the mother. Planned Parenthood has brutally murdered more innocent children then all firearms combined.
I do not wear a tin foil hat, yet I can see the federal government getting so oppressive that we have no choice but revolt. Look at how bungled the feds were at Waco. both the in ital raid and the raid where the FBI did not even have an on scene fire truck and basically let the branch davidians burn alive. Without Waco, there would not have been Oklahoma City bombing. look at ruby ridge, look at wounded knee, the FBI record on civil rights is pathetic. Look how they handled the elian Gonzalez case. If you research the second amendment you will find that our founding fathers intended for the armed American citizen to be the last check and balance against government tyranny. Thomas Jefferson said the tree of liberty must be watered with blood. He expected every so often a revolution to keep the government honest.
why do you think the uber liberals/ socialists are so hot to ban guns? They know that their dream of a socialist US can not be realized as long as the red states citizens are armed. Why is it that only on the left coast and only in new england is gun banning semi popular. In pro hunting mid west, west and the south guns are a part of our heritage. Obama is already trampling on the religious freedom of catholics and all religious institutions that are opposed to abortion by having that mandate to provide med insurance to cover birth control and abortions. He already has by imperial decree circumvented Congress's constitutional authority to regulate immigration by illegally giving amnesty to criminals. ( This alone is grounds for IMPEACHMENT.) There is coming quickly a day when the rights of those who believe in traditional American values will be so oppressed that the red states will bring back an old familiar institution namely the CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA. That is why we need to prevent gun grabbing liberals from taking away our ability to defend ourselves.Without the 2nd amendment to keep the feds in line just how long do you think you would still have your 1st amendment, or your 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizures, or your 5 amendment right to not incriminate one self, or a right to a jury trial. As Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty or give me death"! As Senator Barry Goldwater said. moderation in the defense of liberty is no virtue, and extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice."
bring her back!
Dec 23, 2012 02:56:30 #
With due respect to sinatraman, fully automatic weapons are legal to own in 27 states, providing a transfer tax of $200 is paid to BATF, a background check completed, and the local sheriff or chief of police needs to sign off on the application. This is in accordance with the National Firearms Act of 1934. In my state, Nevada, they are legal under these provisions. Since I was in the firearms business for 14 years, I learned, in Las Vegas, somewhere between 1 and 2 thousand people own such weapons legally.
But to answer the OP's question: I've not heard or seen any official statement, or opinion, concerning the 2nd Amendment and military type weapons. Explosives and larger military armament are restricted, but still somewhat available. I know a civilian who owns an M-1 Abrams tank; I believe he rides around in it on his ranch every once in awhile, but have never seen him do so. The large gun has been welded shut, to be inoperative.
But to answer the OP's question: I've not heard or seen any official statement, or opinion, concerning the 2nd Amendment and military type weapons. Explosives and larger military armament are restricted, but still somewhat available. I know a civilian who owns an M-1 Abrams tank; I believe he rides around in it on his ranch every once in awhile, but have never seen him do so. The large gun has been welded shut, to be inoperative.
Dec 23, 2012 06:42:55 #
Danilo wrote:
With due respect to sinatraman, fully automatic we... (show quote)
Thank you Danilo. I worked in a friends gun store for many years and I had never heard of such a thing either. I think some of the lads are shall we say enlarging on the truth a bit hoping to get folks to believe something that isn't so.
Dec 23, 2012 06:49:38 #
Dec 23, 2012 08:09:05 #
Being a Brit, I have never understood the American's fascination with Guns....I understand it is written into your Constitution, and all power to the men who conceived the ideals. However, that was in 1767, I believe.
Is it not now appropriate to concede that at the time, this was well meant but as society has changed so should not the interpretation also change.
I have advocated in the past that I never discuss Politics, Religion or Babies......Apologies for a minor rant.........
Is it not now appropriate to concede that at the time, this was well meant but as society has changed so should not the interpretation also change.
I have advocated in the past that I never discuss Politics, Religion or Babies......Apologies for a minor rant.........
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