SteveR Loc: Michigan

How about a law in which a gun was used in a criminal offense carrying minimum prison time of 15 years plus the time for the offense? This might get the guns off the streets and still allow folks to keep their guns for protection.

OnTheFly Loc: Tennessee

Not a bad idea. Start punishing the criminal and leave the good people alone

Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY

Never happen. Our justice system revolves around the failed system of rehabilitation. There are many other "violent crimes" where those sentenced to jail time serve no where near 15 years in prison.

Prison sentences for rape are not uniform. A study made by the U.S. Department of Justice of prison releases in 1992, involving about 80 percent of the prison population, found that the average sentence for convicted rapists was 11.8 years, while the actual time served was 5.4 years. This follows the typical pattern for violent crimes in the US, where those convicted typically serve no more than half of their sentence.

Above is an excerpt from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape

Guns are not the problem, bad people are. Unless the manufacture of guns is stopped, bad people will always be able to get one. 8-)

Gnslngr

Good idea! :thumbup:

Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY

Perhaps, but then the bad folks would use knives or some other weapon. The problem is the bad people. Maybe a solid family unit, being taught right from wrong via the family or religious instruction would help, or is that too radical? 8-)

Gnslngr

Not too radical for John Hinckley. Or William Calley. Or a thousand other monsters, some of whom use that very religious instruction to kill, maim and terrorize the innocent. :thumbup:

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

"At least 10 people shot overnight; 82 killed or injured in last week"
Was the headline I found online. And that was in Chicago where the gun laws are about the most stringent of any city or state in the country.
So tell me again how outlawing gun possession or ownership stops any crime.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

You might also mention the mega business of detention and the profits derived from prison labor.

Ched49 Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.

Red flags were thrown up through out Belcher's football playing day's from Grade School on up, everybody who had contact with Belcher knew he had a promising career in the N.F.L. so certain mental issue's with the man were swept under the rug....SOUND FAMILIER?. It's impossible for society to keep check on people who might do this sort of thing even though there were red flags in that person's past...the same way it's impossible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and people with mental issues.

John Evans

Hi Folks, My question does seem to have stirred some passion !!!
My comments on the thread :---

HANDGUNNER your reply was mildly offensive - but I won't lose any sleep over it ! Here in the UK it IS indeed the responsibility of the Police to protect the public and the community (surely they are one and the same thing ?) And they do so without routinely carrying arms. By the way, my sport is shooting, for which purpose I have two licensed shotguns. I also served on my Regiment's shooting team (a then famous Scottish Regiment) when I was in the Army in the Persian Gulf and East Africa. I have followed the sport of shooting - both game and clay pigeons - for almost 60 years and love it as such.

EUGENE Sometimes I agree with your remarks and at other times I think "What a dope" but we can't win them all, can we ? In 1977 we had a law introduced banning the ownership/carrying of handguns and many were indeed handed in to the police. The law has been very largely successful in terms of crime reduction - but, then, we started from a very low base level as compared with the USA. And, yes, drugs dealers are routinely arrested and handcuffed by our unarmed policemen.

CRAZY4THREAD The punishment for the offences you list is "life imprisonment" - but that means a period from, about 8 up to 20 years. Much as in the rest of Western Europe, Scandinavia, etc. Length of sentence varies according to the circumstances of the case. We do not have capital punishment at all - nor would most thinking people wish to have it. If you hang what turns out to have been the wrong guy it simply makes two murders rather than only one, doesn't it ? Having worked in the law courts I know that sometimes a jury does reach the wrong decision. Too late to make amends if the wrong guy is dangling at the end of a rope. And, yes, in my early days we still had capital punishment and yes I have watched a man being sentenced to death. It was not a very edifying experience I can assure you.

STEVE R Your reply makes sense in your historic situation. BUT didn't the same or similar circumstances apply in countries such as Canada, Australia, etc., without giving rise to the same end results?

All in all, it seems to me that you folk live in an intrinsically violent society and that talking about the Wild West is not a satisfactory explanation. So yes, I am inclined to the view that it all comes down to the national psychy as I pondered in the first place.

OnTheFly Loc: Tennessee

Well John. For one thing, I am glad we are not here to meet your approval. Allow me to be dopey one more time for you.... If the police here were not allowed to carry guns then no one would apply to work as a police officer. Nobody in their right minds would want to confront a criminal who is likely to be armed unless they too were armed.
I am glad that you at least agree with me sometimes. And I'm sorry that just because you disagree with me on occation you feel compelled to say I'm a dope. Oh well, you are entitled to your opinion and I wouldn't want anyone to take the right of free speech away from you or to call you a dope just because they dissagree with you. Live well.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

STEVE R Your reply makes sense in your historic situation. BUT didn't the same or similar circumstances apply in countries such as Canada, Australia, etc., without giving rise to the same end results?

We're not talking about the crime wave in Bemudgy, Idaho are we? Aren't we pretty much talking urban areas? There is a complete difference in the populations of the U.S. and Canada. The United States also has a large demographic of disenfranchised people which Canada and Australia do not.

I'd also like to bring up another question to the group. How many times do you hear of a homeowner stopping a break-in with a gun? Very seldom. I think that you're more at risk from the gun that you have for your own protection than the criminal you fear.

OnTheFly Loc: Tennessee

Hey Steve. In Nashville you hear of the owner stopping a criminal every once in a while. Where the criminal wasn't stopped they don't mention whether the owner had a gun or not.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

I can understand store owners having guns.

OnTheFly Loc: Tennessee

Yeah. I read one time that someone working in these little quick markets have the most dangerous in the U.S. Don't know how true it is but I can believe it.