"Photo Gray" (Page 3): The color is GTI MUNSELL NEUTRAL GRAY N8. The paint is very expensive, currently around $110 a gallon.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

BlackRipleyDog wrote:

I have a friend who is a graphics designer in the communications department of a local university research department. This department was moving from one building to another on campus and as part of renovations she specified a paint for her office that was true 18% grey with no blues as she described it so that it would not skew her perception of the Pantone color selections on her work surface. She had to go outside the Facilities Management to source this paint.

The color is GTI MUNSELL NEUTRAL GRAY N8. The paint is very expensive, currently around $110 a gallon.

https://www.rpimaging.com/products/munsell-neutral-gray-paint

I ran the color correction department of a school portrait lab. We painted everything in the room with N8. The idea is to keep your eyes rested. When you look at spectrally neutral gray, you have no "visual biochemical fatigue" to throw you off when judging colors on calibrated monitors.

Stare at a small, brilliant, red object for a minute under bright light. Then look away at something black. You'll see a cyan after-image of the object! Now do it with any other saturated color and note that the same phenomenon occurs. This is a major issue to avoid when evaluating color balance.

That is why color correction booths, light boxes, and rooms are painted with shades of truly neutral gray. I keep my computer desktop set to a neutral gray on both monitors. It really helps!

ecurb Loc: Metro Chicago Area

User ID wrote:

No. He talking about background paper and cloth. Thaz where the term applies.

Yes, seamless background paper, Savage #74 Smoke Gray, is supposed to be 18 Percent gray.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

ecurb wrote:

Yes, seamless background paper, Savage #74 Smoke Gray, is supposed to be 18 Percent gray.

But is it color neutral? I don't care if background paper is 18% because I usually light it separately from the main lights or move it further back to control how dark or light it is.

Timmers Loc: San Antonio Texas.

JohnSwanda wrote:

But is it color neutral? I don't care if background paper is 18% because I usually light it separately from the main lights or move it further back to control how dark or light it is.

The Kodak 18% Gray Card (which is in fact a neutral density attenuator) is NOT neutral in color. They never were. The card is produced by coating fine matt paper with inks until a density of .80 +- .01 is achieved. The card is used to check density only, not color fidelity.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Timmers wrote:

The Kodak 18% Gray Card (which is in fact a neutral density attenuator) is NOT neutral in color. They never were. The card is produced by coating fine matt paper with inks until a density of .80 +- .01 is achieved. The card is used to check density only, not color fidelity.

I know that, but we aren't talking about a Kodak Gray Card, we are talking about a specific background paper. I use a Lastolite target for setting custom white balance.

ecurb Loc: Metro Chicago Area

JohnSwanda wrote:

But is it color neutral? I don't care if background paper is 18% because I usually light it separately from the main lights or move it further back to control how dark or light it is.

This will be as color neutral as possible with a mass production product.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

burkphoto wrote:

The color is GTI MUNSELL NEUTRAL GRAY N8. The paint is very expensive, currently around $110 a gallon.

It's interesting how the price of paint can vary by the color. I used to do quite a bit of car painting, and red paint was much more expensive. Of course, today paint prices are much, much higher.

fetzler Loc: North West PA

Here is an example of background paper in Photo Gray.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1388026-REG/savage_v70_0512_infinity_vinyl_background.html?sts=pi&pim=Y

It is a nice background to use in portraits and photographing 3 D art. Photo Gray lets the colors of the object stand out.

Incidently, In old Technicolor movies, background objects are painted a neutral gray allowing the colors of clothing, faces and other objects of interest to pop out.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

jerryc41 wrote:

It's interesting how the price of paint can vary by the color. I used to do quite a bit of car painting, and red paint was much more expensive. Of course, today paint prices are much, much higher.

N8 has a mix of many colors in it to create a very spectrally neutral gray. Supposedly that costs more.

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

jerryc41 wrote:

Close. I meant the product itself being gray, although I could not find anything about this online. As I said above, it wass mentioned in a couple of videos - "photo gray for product photography."

*sigh*
Effen kids these days,
I still have some cards, somewhere.
In the old days, you could preset a white balance with this.
Since our eyes and brains translate the world for us, but not for the film,
this gave a true response to ambient light.
I have a small one hanging from my old Seikonic meter. 30 years ago it was quite handy.
Having a true 18% reference made a lot of good photos easier to get.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Harry0 wrote:

*sigh*
Effen kids these days,
I still have some cards, somewhere.
In the old days, you could preset a white balance with this.
Since our eyes and brains translate the world for us, but not for the film,
this gave a true response to ambient light.
I have a small one hanging from my old Seikonic meter. 30 years ago it was quite handy.
Having a true 18% reference made a lot of good photos easier to get.

White cards are better to set white balance, but it turns out pure white is difficult to produce, white papers tend to have a cast, and neutral white cards tend to be expensive.

Gray is easier to make neutral and is cheaper to produce, so most people use a gray card to set white balance.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

JD750 wrote:

White cards are better to set white balance, but it turns out pure white is difficult to produce, white papers tend to have a cast, and neutral white cards tend to be expensive.

Gray is easier to make neutral and is cheaper to produce, so most people use a gray card to set white balance.

Brands matter. The old Kodak cards were a bit green and would give a magenta cast. Delta 1 cards are closer to neutral.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

burkphoto wrote:

Brands matter. The old Kodak cards were a bit green and would give a magenta cast. Delta 1 cards are closer to neutral.

They had a card - or something - named after a woman. Remember that?

https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363517842/for-decades-kodak-s-shirley-cards-set-photography-s-skin-tone-standard

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

jerryc41 wrote:

They had a card - or something - named after a woman. Remember that?

https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363517842/for-decades-kodak-s-shirley-cards-set-photography-s-skin-tone-standard

Yes. They were used primarily by film photographers and film labs to establish exposure for portraits. They had corresponding “Shirley” negatives to check densitometers and calibrate printers. Legend says the first model to sit for these was a WASP female named Shirley. Later, they made a group portrait including an African American and an Asian.

The advent of digital color management standards has greatly diminished the use of “Shirleys”.