Thanks Bazamac. When it comes to taking things literally I like to use the example of Adam being told in the day he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and bad he would die. This is something that athiests sometimes use to deny literallity and yes, I just made up that word I think ha ha. This is also something literalists seem to stumble on. So I like to use it. So, lets just assume for arguments sake that we are talking about that. Ok, the Bible said he was told he would die that day. But how so? After all the Bible seems to contradict itself because it also says he lived over 900 years. But if you look at Peters writings he makes the statement that to God a day is as a 1000 years and 1000 years as a day. So, in a physical sense, if you use that definition he did die that ''day''. But if we look further it says after he sinned he was made aware of his ''shame'' and being naked with Eve and they went and tried to hide from God. So if we think this through prior to that we was a perfect human. He was able to pray directly to God and have his prayers heard. He did not need a propiciatory sacrifice ie Jesus to act as a intermediate due to his sacrifice of his perfect life. So in a ''spiritual'' sense he DID die that very day spiritually. He was no longer able to pray directly to God, and without using Jesus as an intermediate he was dead to God spiritually. This is why I try to point out that the Bible was never meant to be taken word for word as literal. Just the use of the word ''day'' can't be taken literally. After all, don't we all use the word day such as ''back in my day...'' or ''back in my grandfathers day...''. We aren't talking literally of a specific 24 hour day. We are talking of a period of time, we are talking figuratively. When the Bible talks about the universe being created in 7 days it's talking FIGURATIVELY and not 7 literal 24 hour days. That's the problem many believers have ie trying to say everything is literal, because it's not. That's also often times a problem athiests have because when they read this they obviously see the seeming contradictions and literalists get trapped and show their ignorance and lack of reasoning things out. Thats why I respect athiests the most. They have very legitimate questions and ask them and can't get reasonable answers. They get crap like ''well it's God's will'' or ''It's a divine mystery''. Oh come on! If God is real and the Bible is his word why would he bother with it only to leave things as ''mystery''!? This is the way I look at it. The Bible is God's owners manual to humanity. I own a Ford Mustang. When I bought it there was an owner's manual. In it there was all of the information I needed to keep my Mustang running properly. It was written by the designers and engineers that designed and built the car and was written for me to know just how to treat it and keep it running as healthy and as long as possible. For me to read it and find things ''a mystery'' is ridiculous. It may not refer to EVERY question I have but it contains what I NEED to know, not necessarily what I WANT to know. So I really do understand why people who don't believe don't and I respect their issues. After all as in my example there is so much that can cause confusion and seeming contradictions and I understand and accept that. But what I don't do is belittle or disrespect someone else's point of view and I don't just say ''oh you're just ignorant and you should believe what I believe etc...'' Anyway, I'm beginning to ramble and I feel a little head spinning anyway. I broke a rib last night and am on pain killers so I'm going to bow out of this rather deep discussion tonight before I do ramble and sound incoherent haha. Just gonna sit back and relax my back and watch tv tonight. Be well everyone.