btbg

Yes, those are the correct studies. The Vietnamese study clearly shows that cloth masks are not effective. The Danish study clearly shows no difference between medical masks and no masks, and the Marine study if you look at the entire study the control group got sick at a lower rate than the mask group. Yet, the people running the studies continue to say that masks may work even though their data says they do not.

So, why do you think that masks work given what the Danish study shows?

And, none of those studies show that masks are effective in preventing the transmission of the disease. They did not test for that. That is my point. There are no studies that support mask use that have actually tested the hypothesis that they are using to make us wear masks. They have proven that masks do not prevent getting the virus, so what makes you think that they will work to prevent the transmission of the virus. There is no data that says they do.

BadPhoto Loc: Maryland

The last report shows it. It is not a control study, which would be practically impossible, but a statistical analysis. Sufficiently valid.

btbg

How on earth can you take those studies and claim that they show masks work. They show clearly that masks won't prevent you from getting sick. No one has studied whether or not they will prevent you from transmitting the virus to someone else.

But logic says that if you can get the virus through a mask you can transmit it through a mask.

Those studies are clear that masks do not prevent you from getting viruses. What more proof do you want?

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

What is even much worse than masks not working is the authorities forcing (mandates) people to wear them. If they can force you to do something that can be proven to be innefective they can force you to do anything. A very scary situation. The vast number of people will meekly obey. Dictatorships start this way. Which other freedoms are the people willing to abandon in the name of "safety" Who was it who said "if you give up freedom for safety, you will have neither"

Kraken Loc: Barry's Bay

You are so damn gullible, trump's favourite targets. You just can't think for yourself.

CWGordon

btbg: for your information:
From the very first (for those who were open on the topic) masks were to prevent “others” from catching YOUR disease. The effectiveness for the wearer of the mask was always said to be less, far less. I am sure your news sources never bothered to touch on that. You are an intelligent man. I have discussed things with you and I know you to be a very capable thinking person. I wish you might consider that those places where masks were worn had such lower infection rates. The Super Spreader events, where masks were eschewed turned out to be just that, super spreaders.
Europe, 27 countries are uniting to ban unvaccinated Americans from coming to their countries. The “anti vax and anti-mask people think there is a conspiracy against them. Can you imagine how many billions of people it takes to conspire against you? And, it never comes out who and what is how it gets done. It must be terrible to live in a world with so many against you. Do you really not see the absurdity of so many positions taken by “conserv atives?” They defy logic. They are crazy theories espoused by radicals, usually with no credentials to back up their lies and far-out theories. That so many will believe these nutjobs and provocateurs in order to divide us is
disheartening to say the least. Worse, is that so many believe them over those experts with decades of respect, leadership, and SUCCESS. I would hope that our ideological differences aside, we could agree that much of what you hear is so far-fetched as to not be believable.

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

There has never been a scientific study that proves that those blue (surgical) masks prevent the spread of any virus. Spread means either to or from. They DON'T work. Think about it this way. If they worked the pandemic would be virtually over. I did not mention vaccines only those commonly worn masks

CWGordon

bob: Sorry you don’t follow more neutral news sources re: efficacy of masks 😷. I find most people who don’t wear masks don’t think much of the vaccines, either. Are you telling all of us you are in favor of the vaccines 💉?

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

But the virus doesn't roam freely through the air, it needs those droplets to move through the air.

btbg

First, I am not anti vaccine. I have been vaccinated. Second, why do you believe that masks will prevent a sick individual from transmitting the disease. Since masks do not prevent you from catching viruses what logical reason would there be to believe that they stop you from spreading it?

The belief that masks slow the spread just does not make sense. Mt. Sinai Hospital did a study on that, which showed that mask mandates slow the spread of viruses, based on initial data from places where mask mandates were implemented versus places that did not have mandates. That is the study that everyone uses to say, "see, masks slow the spread of the virus." Only problem is that when they got additional data from a longer period of time Mt. Sinai had to retract their study because it turned out to be so severely flawed.

This is what Fauci said about masks in an email to a friend before he suddenly started advocating for them.

“The typical mask you buy in the drug store is not really effective in keeping out [the] virus, which is small enough to pass through the material. It might, however, provide some slight benefit in [keeping] out gross droplets if someone coughs or sneezes on you.”

So, at best he is claiming it might provide a slight benefit. Of course there is no scientific study that would indicate that is true.

I do not believe there is a conspiracy. I simply believe that the CDC and Fauci are lying about the effectiveness of masks. I have no idea why. If I had to guess it's the kind of thing where they are powerless to stop the virus, so they think, well we have to do something, so maybe this will help. Then, they have doubled down on it because they don't want to admit that they recommended masks with no scientific basis.

Let me give you an example of why I despise the mask mandates. Last spring Oregon had two serious incidents with athletes wearing masks. One made national news, when she fell and bounced across the finish line at the end of an 800. She suffered a concussion, but did break the school record. The second incident did not make national news. In any case the individual complained that they couldn't breath and foolishly went to the locker room. Fortunately the head coach sent someone immediately to check on her. She had collapsed on the floor and the coaches had to perform CPR.

Because of those two incidents the state changed their policy on masks in athletics. First they said that if you were vaccinated then you could quit wearing a mask during competition, then they said ok, everyone can stop wearing masks for athletics while you are playing, but you have to wear one while sitting on the sidelines. The state had already delayed all sports until the spring and had just six week seasons. Anyway, now they are starting fall sports "normally".

High school athletes have been given a choice whether or not they wish to wear a mask or not during practice and competition. However, the athletes must wear masks while sitting on the sideline during games or matches despite the fact that they are required to keep six feet from their teammates while on the bench. Think that through. You have to wear a mask while sitting six feet from a teammate, but you can be blocking a volleyball spike from right across the net from someone you don't know with no mask. And, the coaches, I'm a volunteer assistant, have to wear masks at all times.

Think that through for a minute. If you are correct, the mask does not protect me from getting the virus, it only prevents me from spreading it. But, the high school athletes are at very low risk, while I am in a moderately high risk group. So, they don't need to be protected, while maybe I do.

So, does that mask rule make any sense to you? And, of course they claim that they are following the science. By the way, right now, Oregon is the only state that has an outdoor mask mandate.

If they just did a study with a control group and mask versus no mask that showed that masks do indeed reduce transmission, that's one thing. But, they haven't done that. The studies show that masks are ineffective at preventing the wearer from getting the virus and they say, it may help reduce the chance of transmission, but they have no proof, yet they then make nonsensical rules in the name of protecting us.

If the mask rules weren't so bizarre, maybe I wouldn't have the attitude I have about them, but they make no sense. By the way, the super spreader stuff doesn't seem to make sense from what we are seeing locally anyway. There was no mask mandate during the local horse races and they had 6,000 people in the stands the last two nights of the races with no masks. That was in July. No spike in cases. Then, the first week of August the county fair happened, once again with no masks, and there was no spike in cases. There's approximately 21,000 people in the county, so 6,000 is a pretty large percentage to be in close quarters maskless.

Anyway, now, with no major events today there were 48 positive cases in the county even though the mask mandates have been back for the last two weeks.

I also think that you are a thoughtful man. I just think that in this particular case you are incorrect.

CWGordon

btbg: We may disagree. However, I gotta say you just wrote a helluva argument. If everyone took the time to actually explain their thought process instead of just namecalling, maybe we would get somewhere. I am glad to hear you got vaccinated. I do really believe they work and that they save lives. Once again, I appreciate and respect the time and effort you put into explaining and communicating your position. I am unsure that I will change my opinion, but promise I will do my bit by further researching what you have provided and looking at other resources.
I eagerly await the scorn either you or I, or us both, will receive for the civility we have accorded each other. It really infuriates a few of our brethren when people actually make rational efforts when espousing their beliefs.

Very well composed and clearly written. Thank you.

Be well and stay well.

btbg

Thank you. Same to you. We often disagree, but I can appreciate someone who sincerely holds a view and can articulate why they believe that way.

Civility is a good thing. I dislike the name calling, but, I really don't care if people like what I have to say or not. I just want people to look at the data with a critical eye, and question what is really true. I don't trust government, never have, and have a tendency to assume the worst from government, regardless of what party is in charge.

Since it is easy to document that Fauci has lied about gain of function research, I don't trust anything the man says, especially since he is saying the opposite publicly that he was originally saying privately. And, I don't trust the CDC either, haven't since they put a page up on their website trying to justify invalidating the Vietnamese study.

They claimed in their explanation that cloth masks might not have worked because they weren't properly sanitized, or properly worn, and then they claimed that the study isn't valid because it was done with health care professionals.

So, if they can't properly sanitize or wear masks, what are the chances that the general public can? I don't think there's much chance of that. Anyway, thanks for clearly stating your position and thanks for being willing to look at the research. Enjoyed the discussion.

btbg

Here is an article that I just saw about why I don't trust Fauci. He controlled the purse strings on a lot of money, and has every reason to make sure that the virus does not blow back on him. It is documented that the Wuhan lab was doing gain of function research, and it is documented that Fauci funneled money to the lab. It is also documented that one of the scientist in the lab wrote a research paper with gain of function in the title and that Fauci emailed that scientist with the title gain of function in his email. He had denied that he helped fund gain of function research in Wuhan when questioned by Rand Paul, but Paul entered the emails into evidence and in Fauci's own words it says gain of function. This article does not go into that. That will be a later article in the series, but other articles have covered that aspect of the situation.

Interestingly three scientist in January of 2020 said they had evidence that Covid was genetically altered in a lab. One day after they said that they had a private phone call with Fauci and the following day they said they were wrong it was not lab altered.

So, why did they change their point of view. i think it was because if they had not they would have lost their funding. In any case, I think this is an interesting read, and it is one of the reasons that I don't trust Fauci. It is a simple premise. He who controls the money has a vested interest in protecting his position, and he appears to have done exactly that, at the expense of the American people and of national policy.

I realize that you may not think much of the source, but that's the way it goes.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/cash-covid-and-coverup-part-1-the-questions-we-should-have-asked-of-fauci-about-the-origins-of-covid-19?utm_source=theblaze-breaking&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210831SponsoredTrending-LionMedia&utm_term=ACTIVE%20LIST%20-%20TheBlaze%20Breaking%20News