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Election integrity
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Nov 11, 2020 13:35:47   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DennyT wrote:
Agree but in 2000 the election outcome hinges on Florida. The was indeed a chance.
This year there is no chance . He just filed suit in Michigan although he is behind 148,000.


Let’s get real . There is not one shred of cheating. That is trump conspiracy and nothing else.


Cohen thinks trump will go to mar- a-lagonfir Christmas and not come back.


Denny, again, that is your opinion, there are very serious lawyers on Trump's team that say otherwise, I am not taking their word for it without seeing more, but I am also not taking your word for it nor the media's that told me that Trump was guilty of being Putin's puppet for the last 4 years.... The press has destroyed itself, so no believing the reporting on either side of the issue, so we wait for the courts.

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Nov 11, 2020 13:58:49   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
letmedance wrote:
It is really a bit early to make the statement that there is no anything, let the investigations begin. I for one need to know that our election system is not rife with corruption, error, or mistake. Without an investigation Biden will not get support from half of the nation. That goes for future elected politicians as well.



Open ended investigation are fine just like the Russian one.
But don’t delay the process


Btw Biden already has more than 50% support - look at the vote - totals

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Nov 11, 2020 14:02:29   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
DennyT wrote:
Open ended investigation are fine just like the Russian one.
But don’t delay the process


Btw Biden already has more than 50% support - look at the vote - totals


Democrats often get more than 50% of the vote, that is why it is wonderful that we live in a republic, the founders were very deliberate in their thought process in setting up the electoral college.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:12:54   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
Tex-s wrote:
Regardless of your personal desires concerning candidates, I have to suggest that the greatest win in any American election now is clear proof that the election was conducted fairly, more precisely that the election was NOT conducted UNfairly. When elections are questioned in some way, and potentially challenged in formal ways, it seems to me that a failure to investigate is potentially far more dangerous that the investigation, even if the investigation found massive amounts of fraud. At least massive fraud being detected and alleviated would restore a veneer of fairness.

It would seem that investigating allegations and finding them either unsubstantiated or of an inconsequential scope verifies integrity rather than undermining it. It seems ignoring valid concerns projects an air of secrecy and of potential illegitimacy. Just as certain locales refusing access to poll watchers CAN'T be seen as transparent, refusing to verify the voracity of policy, process, and results seems the WORST plan, as it galvanizes opposition and conspiracy theory, and worse, should said allegations have happened to have ANY merit, failure to vet claims actually emboldens those who might have actually violated the integrity of the election.

I seem to recall that one vein of the body politic still suggest Al Gore, after two 2000 recounts verified a Bush win in Florida, was 'cheated' out of the election. (Those recounts and subsequent court battles took a ful month, by the way.) Imagine the magnitude and the duration of the damage if 2020's far more substantial claims of misconduct and violation of law go un-investigated. Polling suggest that even Democrats see the 2000 election as fair, when they know that two recounts, both verifying Bush, were done.

Love or hate either candidate, but please hope for the most complete and transparent evaluation of voting that literally everyone worried was more-vulnerable-than-usual to fraud because of the mail-in vote. Any less invites discord, upheaval, and even violence. No one should be wanting that. Not even if they want to 'transform' the nation.

Biden will likely retain his lead and become President, but why saddle him with similar baggage to that that saddled Trump if it can be avoided? The 'worst' is not finding fraud, not in a Trump second term, but in losing the integrity of the vote, the process.
Regardless of your personal desires concerning can... (show quote)


And all this begs the question....so why are democrats putting up soooo much resistance to efforts regarding transparency and the search for the truth. If Russia, Russia, Russia and the Biden crime family China and Ukraine shenanigans are an indication we may be on track for the answer.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:17:28   #
idaholover Loc: Nampa ID
 
DennyT wrote:
Fine do it.

The Russian investigation took place after the fact and did not hinder the transition.

Is that ok ?


No it is not ok. The coup was perpetrated prior to the transition. They didn't count on Hillary losing is all.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:21:02   #
Spark Loc: ColdNorth
 
The answer is in your statement: "...we may be on track for the answer."

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Nov 11, 2020 15:23:56   #
Spark Loc: ColdNorth
 
idaholover wrote:
And all this begs the question....so why are democrats putting up soooo much resistance to efforts regarding transparency and the search for the truth. If Russia, Russia, Russia and the Biden crime family China and Ukraine shenanigans are an indication we may be on track for the answer.


The answer is in your statement: "...we may be on track for the answer."

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Nov 11, 2020 15:37:38   #
btbg
 
DennyT wrote:
IMHO

While the legal discussion about who can change a election rule may be technically correct : (1) it was done either best of intentions to allow more Americans to safely vote during a pandemic and 2) those of you whining about that point now don’t really give a hoot about the constitutional aspect but rather are applauded it only as away way to suppress votes opposed your candidate.

Second because of the president incessant whinning pre election about non existent mail in fraud, this election was the most honest well rule accurate election in our countries history. His constant diatribes promoted election officials to be extra cautious and diligent in their duties.

Time to stop the cry baby attitude.
IMHO br br While the legal discussion about who c... (show quote)


You just acknowledged that the election rule changes are technically unconstitutional. That should be enough said. Intention does not matter. The Constitution is the law of the land and should be followed.

And, you are wrong about the reason I keep bringing that up. I was bringing it up well before the election. I do not want to suppress votes. I just want people to have to want to vote and show up at the polls and wait in line. When people don't have to take any time or energy to vote it makes them susceptible to ballot harvesting schemes and voter manipulation.

As far as this election being the most honest ever, well, let's see there is Pennsylvania saying that they don't need to verify signatures on vote by mail, that certainly isn't honest. There is Wisconsin telling election clerks to fill in missing addresses on witness information when the law clearly states that if there is no witness information then the ballot is to be thrown out. There are the voter "irregularities" in Fulton County Georgia, which caused the Georgia attorney general to send people to Atlanta to try to find out exactly what they did. Etc... Etc... Etc...

Whether or not there is large scale fraud remains to be seen, but in the battle ground states a few votes here and there are the difference in the election. Around 10,000 votes in Georgia, somewhere around 20,000 in Wisconsin and something like 50,000 in Pennsylvania. Change those states and Trump wins. So, it would have taken very little fraud to change the outcome.

But, that isn't even the big point. The big point is that the election rule changes that you just acknowledged are unconstitutional gave Biden the election. Thus it was unfairly decided because unconstitutional is unconstitutional and should not be allowed.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:39:16   #
btbg
 
DennyT wrote:
The only case to have any merit is that one and even if ruled by scotus those vote don’t count( and they are not in the totals that I am aware of ). They are not enough to change the outcome.

If that if the ruling will you concede trump lost ?


Scotus did not rule that those votes don't count. They ruled that those votes could be counted but must be kept separate so that they could potentially be removed later. Translation, exclude those votes and Trump wins Pennsylvania.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:43:11   #
btbg
 
DennyT wrote:
Agree but in 2000 the election outcome hinges on Florida. The was indeed a chance.
This year there is no chance . He just filed suit in Michigan although he is behind 148,000.


Let’s get real . There is not one shred of cheating. That is trump conspiracy and nothing else.


Cohen thinks trump will go to mar- a-lagonfir Christmas and not come back.


Trump isn't the one that filed suit in Michigan. And the people that did have affidavits from eye witnesses that attest to large scale fraud such as election workers going into the ballot area with voters and helping them fill out their ballots.

There may not be large scale cheating other than illegally changing the voting regulations, but there is at least plenty of evidence of voting irregularities to warrant careful recounts with the election monitors closer than 30 feet away this time.

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Nov 11, 2020 15:50:42   #
btbg
 
DennyT wrote:
Open ended investigation are fine just like the Russian one.
But don’t delay the process


Btw Biden already has more than 50% support - look at the vote - totals


You forget that an open ended investigation would mean that if there turns out to be evidence of voter fraud there would be no way to correct the problem and for the next four years half of the country would believe that we have an illegitimate president.

And as far as Biden having more than 50 percent of the vote, he does, but that support is only in metropolitan areas. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 95 percent of the country voted for Trump when you look at geography. The reason that matters is because those voters have felt disenfranchised for years and allegations of election tampering or fraud will not sit well with them since they are already ignored.

Any investigation must be done before a president is voted on by the electoral college, or the integrity of the election will not be believed by approximately half the country. And, if the supreme court does the right thing and throws out votes that were cast illegally because of the unconstitutional election rule changes, then Trump easily wins, but the other half of the country will refuse to recognize the president as fairly elected.

Things are already so badly messed up that fraud or no fraud the election is permanently tainted. It is very much like the Harrison, Tilden election where there were two different vote tallies in several states.

That is exactly what we have now because we have the votes that were cast by the original voting rules, which Trump easily wins, and we have the votes that were cast using the new and unconstitutional rules, which Biden wins. The election rule changes are the abomination that makes it impossible to fairly determine who won regardless of the level of voter fraud.

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Nov 11, 2020 17:07:38   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Denny, again, that is your opinion, there are very serious lawyers on Trump's team that say otherwise, I am not taking their word for it without seeing more, but I am also not taking your word for it nor the media's that told me that Trump was guilty of being Putin's puppet for the last 4 years.... The press has destroyed itself, so no believing the reporting on either side of the issue, so we wait for the courts.


Have they displayed any factual evidence or just claimed it happened.
In dismissed ( can remember which on) the judge ask for evidence of the claim, trump’s lawyer answer— we’ll give it to as soon as it is in our possession “

So far I have heard no evidence what so ever.

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Nov 11, 2020 17:11:08   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
btbg wrote:
You forget that an open ended investigation would mean that if there turns out to be evidence of voter fraud there would be no way to correct the problem and for the next four years half of the country would believe that we have an illegitimate president.

And as far as Biden having more than 50 percent of the vote, he does, but that support is only in metropolitan areas. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 95 percent of the country voted for Trump when you look at geography. The reason that matters is because those voters have felt disenfranchised for years and allegations of election tampering or fraud will not sit well with them since they are already ignored.

Any investigation must be done before a president is voted on by the electoral college, or the integrity of the election will not be believed by approximately half the country. And, if the supreme court does the right thing and throws out votes that were cast illegally because of the unconstitutional election rule changes, then Trump easily wins, but the other half of the country will refuse to recognize the president as fairly elected.

Things are already so badly messed up that fraud or no fraud the election is permanently tainted. It is very much like the Harrison, Tilden election where there were two different vote tallies in several states.

That is exactly what we have now because we have the votes that were cast by the original voting rules, which Trump easily wins, and we have the votes that were cast using the new and unconstitutional rules, which Biden wins. The election rule changes are the abomination that makes it impossible to fairly determine who won regardless of the level of voter fraud.
You forget that an open ended investigation would ... (show quote)


Is that any different than the Russian issue. If there were real evidence found what could have been done reference the 2016 election . .? Nothing



Ref the Supreme Court case. So throw out the ballots , Biden still wins by a lot . More than automatic recount minimum according to today’s news. Biden is so far ahead in PA that then court may not even look at it because it has no bearing on election final results

It’s over .

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Nov 11, 2020 17:26:31   #
Steven Loc: So. Milwaukee, WI.
 
The only thing I believe personally about elections is that my vote doesn't count. The electoral college are the ones who elect the President. It sounds more like championship pool match - "a race to 270 points". All other election, local and statewide", votes are counted and a winner declared by that. It works!

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Nov 11, 2020 17:33:08   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
letmedance wrote:
It is really a bit early to make the statement that there is no anything, let the investigations begin. I for one need to know that our election system is not rife with corruption, error, or mistake. Without an investigation Biden will not get support from half of the nation. That goes for future elected politicians as well.


Then bring something other than suspicion .

That’s what you told everyone when we yelled Ukraine

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