Lingen Loc: Grenada, Caribbean

Dear All,

My current 'establishment' consists of a Canon 60D with 50mm 1.8; EFS 55-250; EFS 18-135; Sigma 17-50 2.8; and also an Olympus OMD E M5 II with 14-150; and an Olympus TG5.

I live in the Caribbean, (= humidity, Sahara dust, sand, salt!), so zooms makes better sense than constant lens-changing. I am miles, and flight hours, from the nearest camera shop or service agent.

My lenses are stored in boxes with silica gel, and are free of dust and fungus. Only the Sigma is reasonably new: do lenses deteriorate with age or in the heat? I do not leave them in hot cars.

With the Canon, I only get reasonably sharp pictures with the 50mm, which I seldom use. The 18-135 is so reliably UN-sharp that I have given up using it, though it is exactly the focal range that I most use. The TG5 takes sharper pictures! Two years ago I went to the UK and had the Canon serviced in the hope that it would become sharper: minimal improvement. Both Olympuses outshine all the Canon lenses in sharpness. And now the Canon has developed an intermittent 'Error 20', which renders it effectively useless. I know other happy Canon users here and in England, and it seems that I have been 'unlucky'.

I need another camera, and was undecided between a Canon 90D, a Panasonic G9 or another Olympus. Since I have no intention of travelling, for obvious reasons, I shall have to have the camera and lens(es?) shipped from the USA.

Having read good reports about B&H on UH, I asked their advice. They were swift and sensible. In essence, they said that I should go for the 90D, and consider a sharper lens to go with it.

An arsenal of prime lenses would break my bank, and invite dust etc. damage. There is too much informtion on the internet for me to make a decision. I would not want a lens to cost substantially more than the camera body. B&H said I should look at the Canon L range, or Sigma Art. I have considered the 17-40 L f4, the 24-70 by both Canon and Sigma; but I have heard that the more recent 18-135's are better than my old one. Or should I ignore B&H's advice and abandon Canon altogether? I am reluctant to do that because of existing lenses.

I would be profoundly grateful if you could help me decide.

dick ranez

Try some simple tests. Since your 18-135 and 55-250 overlap, take a series of photos with both lenses. Use a tripod against a well defined target - a brick wall, a shiplapped sided building, a fence. Pick several overlapping focal lengths and take exposures with identical settings (may need manual) and compare. Is one lens sharper than the other? Then compare again using the 50mm lens. The odds of all three being bad are miniscule. If two of three agree, you have a problem with the third one. If all three are bad, consider the camera. As to your other question, lenses do not deteriorate - I have and use several that are over 50 years old. Of course, proper care is important, you can contribute to their demise. In only a very few cases a new camera is the answer, regardless of camera company marketing appeals.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

You're paying a price premium for a brand new EOS 90D release. It's three generations advanced over your EOS 60D. You'll see much better ISO performance and much increased pixel resolution for processing. If money is not an issue on selecting a new body, this is a good choice, assuming you 'need' a new model. If your EOS 60D simply has a problem with one lens and meets your needs otherwise, you probably should just look at a lens replacement / upgrade rather than tossing aside a perfectly good camera.

Regarding lenses, you should always consider sharing some examples of a 'problem' lens (a free activity) before investing in a replacement. The newest EFS 18-135 models have improved, but never was this lens a 'problem' where you'd think it was consistently unsharp. If Canon provided service and considered it within tolerance, you really should start a new thread and post and store some original JPEGs directly the camera and let many other sets of eyes see what you're seeing.

If you're happy with the Sigma, there's no reason to replace this lens with an older Canon lens covering the same focal length zoom.

Rather than focusing on spending money, something any vendor and seemingly most of UHH has an incentive to support, why not:

1. Investigate your issues with the EFS 18-135. Why are you disappointed with the image results? What is causing the Error 20?

2. Investigate your photography interests. Why is an EOS 90D (or Pano / Oly) the best match to these interests / needs?

3. Investigate results from all lenses you have. Can you achieve consistent results across lenses and cameras? If not, why not?

4. The ideas above are a week or two of free effort, assuming you provided the requests examples and interact with those offering help or follow-up questions. You should have a more informed idea of 'next steps' in a short time with relatively little effort, and no new costs of unnecessary equipment.

JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell

A "bridge" camera such as a Sony RX10IV, Canon G3X or Lumix FZ1000 give you great versatility from wide to telephoto including macro without changing lenses. Sony, the dearest has the best reputation for IQ. Lumix, the cheapest, is next according to many reviewers with the Canon usually dismissed casually as it doesn't have a built in EVF. I've had Lumix FZ1000 and FZ2500 and found them good to use. I traded the FZ2500 for a Canon G3X with add on EVF and find it better than the Lumix in all ways. Sony has been too dear for me. Good luck with your quest.

jayluber Loc: Phoenix, AZ

CHG_CANON - He always give GREAT advice and feedback and spends so much time responding to questions in such great depth here. It's great we have him.

jim quist Loc: Missouri

For what its worth: I talked to some guys from India, they said with the climate there that Canon would not do so well but Nikon would be okay.

Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal

I am a Nikonista.
Like many on this list, I have "leftover" lenses from my previous "full frame" systems.
I've gotten rid of most of these cameras, but my two Nikon EMs do well for me.
These cameras- and lenses- are over 50 years old. And still work well.
As long as they're taken care of- don't scrub the glass!- they should do you fine.
You'll be happy- er- if your new camera fits the lenses, flashes, etc you already have.
BUT I have to ask- what magical results are you expecting from your new camera?
There's folk on here that'd do a lot better with a few hours of lessons than a few thousands of dollars of GAS.
If I'm taking 4x6 prints for family, my D80 makes prettier pictures than anything made after it.
YMMV, of course. But work from results back, and see what you can do.

johngault007 Loc: Florida Panhandle

I think in another post you mentioned you use LR, which I am guessing implies that you post process raw files.

I know for me, I was not really happy with any results of my EFS lenses and they always had a softness I couldn't figure out. A majority of the issues came from my lack of experience in my post processing software. I have more than enough time to go back through my older files and apply new techniques with a better understanding on how all of the tools available impact even the smallest aspect of the image. With all of that said, I am beginning to appreciate how good those lenses are.

Paul (CHG_Canon) gave some very sage advice to troubleshoot all aspects of the process before going down a very expensive path of new equipment, unless that is what you truly want.

Lingen Loc: Grenada, Caribbean

Thanks to all who have replied so aptly, fully, helpfully, and so quickly.

I understand the sense in testing all the lenses as suggested: but the Canon often gives me 'Error 20' before I can take one shot. At best it will take five or six - it is inconsistent. It needs fixing, but sending stuff off island at present is tricky.

Yes, sharpening and clarity in LR definitely help (in camera sharpening does not); but even LR cannot redeem the 18-135. Taking hummingbirds during lockdown here was frustrating. (No feeder - I had to react to where they darted in a variegated bush.) I had to crop the Olympus pictures more than the Canon, but they were still sharper.

bejamin Loc: South Texas

I am very amateur. I really agree with the comments above. However if you are wanting to purchase first try a Sigma 18-300 F3.5-6.3 DC MACRO Contemporary. I have it as my everyday walk around lens and My results are some tack sharp photos. It is on my Canon 70D, 1 generation newer than your 60D. I am a little further North, South Texas, than you are in the islands. Good luck with your decision.

dick ranez

Does the error 20 occur with a specific lens? Canon suggests the solution is to turn the camera off, remove and then re-insert the battery. (google "canon error 20") Make sure your battery is good - test it by trying another one - as it may be losing effectiveness. Paul (chg-canon) always provides good answers, pay attention to his advice.

jayluber Loc: Phoenix, AZ

What does your user manual say about "Error 20"?

jayluber Loc: Phoenix, AZ

Have you taken the initiative to investigate and research Error 20? What did you find?

Lingen Loc: Grenada, Caribbean

Thanks for another spportive set of responses.

Yes, Jayluber, it's the first thing I did, about three months ago, since when the problem has intensified.

"Err 20. Description: A malfunction with the mechanical mechanism has been detected. Resolution: Turn the power off, then remove and re-install the battery. Then turn the power on again."

I have tried it with two batteries, both fully and less than fully charged. I have tried it with three lenses.

I can well believe that it's a mechanical fault, because there is a 'clunk' that can be felt as well as heard.

To respond to earlier comments: what I want is sharpness. I look with envy at the sharper UH pictures. (And, sometimes, at my own pictures taken with the Olympuses).

The India comment is interesting: an excellent Grenadian photographer takes sharp pictures with a Nikon.

The Sigma 18-300 sounds interesting.

And finally, to several of you: I am of Scottish descent, and I do enjoy not spending money!

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

Lingen, someone mentioned looking at your posting history. You asked a different form of the same question in this post: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-544700-3.html

In the series of responses to the earlier thread, the request was made for you to post some examples. Again, it's critical that you post original JPEGs directly from the camera and store the file(s), as shown below. Clarify too if Err20 is now common to all your lenses for this camera, or still just lens?

If still using LR, consider the techniques discussed in these two posts, as well as the ideas of how to obtain sharply focused digital images:

Basics of noise processing

Basics of Lightroom Sharpening

How to obtain sharp images in digital photography