Why is this?
Feb 21, 2020 14:40:52 #
Linda From Maine wrote:
A couple of our former educators (RobertJerl and j... (show quote)
I do agree on how you say it. Since I am not good as saying stuff like that I just don't say it. But of course when I see good works I would praise them.
Feb 21, 2020 14:48:06 #
lev29 wrote:
Even taking your comment out of context (except that this is the UHH Forum,) Longshadow, I couldn’t agree with you more, even though a well-respected Hog did so, at least recently.
It was in reply to a "quoted statement", did you read the quote, or just my reply?
Feb 21, 2020 15:09:57 #
I haven't read all 7 pages of comments. However, I've been around UHH since 2011. At that time Photo Gallery was open to comment and some people got pretty rancid in their comments, even at pretty good photos. We had some pretty nasty posters. I can understand the change. As others have pointed out, there are other sections where critique is welcome.
Feb 21, 2020 15:16:39 #
SteveR wrote:
You successfully condensed six pages into one paragraph! I haven't read all 7 pages of comments. However, I've been around UHH since 2011. At that time Photo Gallery was open to comment and some people got pretty rancid in their comments, even at pretty good photos. We had some pretty nasty posters. I can understand the change. As others have pointed out, there are other sections where critique is welcome.
Feb 21, 2020 17:07:03 #
Being able to offer a comprehensive, educational, and constructive critique requires a good balance of expertise, the requisite technical skill sets, some eruditeness, and tactfulness. Obviously, not too many folks want to be browbeaten or scolded and mean spiritedness, harshness, and tactlessness are always problematic and uncalled for. Good critics also realize that undeserved praise is also a disservice to sincere submitters.
The oftentimes neglected issue, however, is that there are attitudes and skill sets required to properly process a critique- simply stated how to TAKE a critique. Also- how to ask for a critique. The folks that say "here's my work- rip it apart- I have thick skin...etc." may possibly be inadvertently inviting "trolls" and folks who relish in other people's discomfort into the process. Eviscerating someone's work is NOT the function of a good teacher or critic. Their function is to analyze, point out the successful and perhaps negative aspects and offer suggestions and remedies where these are applicable and appropriate. The recipient may take away some disappointment but enough encouragement to improve or gain some well-deserved bragging rights, or anything in-between. All opinions are not carved in stone and astute photographers should seek other opinions and weigh all opinions on the statues, work, reputation and their own assessment of the critic.- take the criticism from whom and where it comes and process it accordingly and realistically. Remember also that judges are human beings and may have prejudices, tastes, leanings, and stylizations of their own. Not every judge is objective and not every judge is qualified of equipped to judge every kind of work.
I consider a good critiquing process extremely valuable in photographic education. Perhaps I am prejudiced in that was the greatest part of my early professional education. As a studio apprentice, my work was scrutinized every day. My first boss and mentor examined my negatives with an 8X loupe and critique my work on a daily bases- sometimes on an hourly basis. His directives as to camera operation, lighting, posing, darkroom procedures, and life were very pragmatic and dogmatic- "Do everything exactly how I tell you to"! He, however, did not stunt my creativity and promised when I master all the basic skills I can begin to make variations. He also sent me to seminars given by other masters and to courses at the Winona School all where critiques were abundantly available. This elevated "learning from my mistakes" to a very high level. I mad lots of mistakes and did lots of learning
The boss was very philosophical and kind but some of the senior photographers were tough guys and not quite ready to embrace a rookie.
The would sometimes issue scholarly and insightful on the spot critiques like "that shot is in the toilet" and "you would need Houdini to print that negative"! In retrospect, they taught me well and took the time to do so.
Of course, as a 15- year old kid, I found the off-color remarks about excrement and toilers amusing, succulent, and to the point!
I began, at 16 years old, to enter the professional print competition -years old and my favorite educational activity was going to open judgings and watching the judges in action- especially when my prints came up for scoring. Some of my cohorts and colleagues at work said I was a glutton for punishment but I found these experiences instructive and extremely entertaining- especially when there were disagreements or challenges among the judges and VERY ESPECIALLY if it happened on one of my entries!
I remember one occasion where one of my prints were up for "best of show". It was a portrait of a classical orchestra conductor. One judge want to deduct points because of his white starched shirt cuff, protruding from the sleeve of his tuxedo jacket was a distraction- the other judge insisted that stiff white cuff was part of the motif and character of the portrait. After the session, I came out in the hall and my coworkers asked how I scored. I didn't actually know. I was having such a good time trying to suppress my laughter during the event that I forgot the results. Moral of the story- if all this critiquing, competition and related business cases to be fun, enjoyable, challenging and exciting and truly constructive- as they say in Brooklyn, forgetaboutit! It is all for naught if it sours your enthusiasm for your hobby, art, or your profession and puts you on the fast track for a nervous breakdown or chronic indigestion!
The oftentimes neglected issue, however, is that there are attitudes and skill sets required to properly process a critique- simply stated how to TAKE a critique. Also- how to ask for a critique. The folks that say "here's my work- rip it apart- I have thick skin...etc." may possibly be inadvertently inviting "trolls" and folks who relish in other people's discomfort into the process. Eviscerating someone's work is NOT the function of a good teacher or critic. Their function is to analyze, point out the successful and perhaps negative aspects and offer suggestions and remedies where these are applicable and appropriate. The recipient may take away some disappointment but enough encouragement to improve or gain some well-deserved bragging rights, or anything in-between. All opinions are not carved in stone and astute photographers should seek other opinions and weigh all opinions on the statues, work, reputation and their own assessment of the critic.- take the criticism from whom and where it comes and process it accordingly and realistically. Remember also that judges are human beings and may have prejudices, tastes, leanings, and stylizations of their own. Not every judge is objective and not every judge is qualified of equipped to judge every kind of work.
I consider a good critiquing process extremely valuable in photographic education. Perhaps I am prejudiced in that was the greatest part of my early professional education. As a studio apprentice, my work was scrutinized every day. My first boss and mentor examined my negatives with an 8X loupe and critique my work on a daily bases- sometimes on an hourly basis. His directives as to camera operation, lighting, posing, darkroom procedures, and life were very pragmatic and dogmatic- "Do everything exactly how I tell you to"! He, however, did not stunt my creativity and promised when I master all the basic skills I can begin to make variations. He also sent me to seminars given by other masters and to courses at the Winona School all where critiques were abundantly available. This elevated "learning from my mistakes" to a very high level. I mad lots of mistakes and did lots of learning
The boss was very philosophical and kind but some of the senior photographers were tough guys and not quite ready to embrace a rookie.
The would sometimes issue scholarly and insightful on the spot critiques like "that shot is in the toilet" and "you would need Houdini to print that negative"! In retrospect, they taught me well and took the time to do so.
Of course, as a 15- year old kid, I found the off-color remarks about excrement and toilers amusing, succulent, and to the point!
I began, at 16 years old, to enter the professional print competition -years old and my favorite educational activity was going to open judgings and watching the judges in action- especially when my prints came up for scoring. Some of my cohorts and colleagues at work said I was a glutton for punishment but I found these experiences instructive and extremely entertaining- especially when there were disagreements or challenges among the judges and VERY ESPECIALLY if it happened on one of my entries!
I remember one occasion where one of my prints were up for "best of show". It was a portrait of a classical orchestra conductor. One judge want to deduct points because of his white starched shirt cuff, protruding from the sleeve of his tuxedo jacket was a distraction- the other judge insisted that stiff white cuff was part of the motif and character of the portrait. After the session, I came out in the hall and my coworkers asked how I scored. I didn't actually know. I was having such a good time trying to suppress my laughter during the event that I forgot the results. Moral of the story- if all this critiquing, competition and related business cases to be fun, enjoyable, challenging and exciting and truly constructive- as they say in Brooklyn, forgetaboutit! It is all for naught if it sours your enthusiasm for your hobby, art, or your profession and puts you on the fast track for a nervous breakdown or chronic indigestion!
Feb 21, 2020 18:04:52 #
Pixeldawg wrote:
Hi all, br br Thanks for the responses. Quite hon... (show quote)
Others who responded have already suggested that you explore sections of UHH where critique is an expectation or a part of that section's mission. I echo that suggestion. You'll find the folks in those sections more appreciative of what you have to offer and more likely to permit you to show them what you mean with edits. The gallery is mostly, well, a gallery. Where images are put up to show others, and little is expected back other than pleasant acknowledgement.
With your extensive travel, you know that all places have their own cultures. Culture can be partly understood by reviewing rules/laws, but not entirely. Some of culture is understood by being there, by talking to the citizens, interacting, sharing. Online forums are virtual places but places nonetheless. UHH is a virtual community with an overall culture (some have called it Wild West) and subcultures that are reflected in the various sections (some are quite civilized and at least one is utterly uncivilized). If you like the overall forum, you should explore the smaller communities before you give up on it, and see if one fits. I have my own favorites and seldom venture into the others. Most UHH citizens do something similar.
If nothing suits what you want, then exploring other photography forums would certainly be in order. There is no rule that you can only participate in one! I moderate one forum, and actively participate in 3 more including UHH. All 4 of them are very different in their overall cultures. I do a bit of learning and teaching in all of them. You'll find your fit if you look around but changing one to suit would be a frustrating chore.
Feb 21, 2020 20:36:24 #
Pixeldawg wrote:
Last time I looked, the description for the Gallery also included critiques. It is what it is and maybe I should look for another group that is more inclined to discuss the images. Simply stating "nice shot" is pretty boring and mostly not something I care to read.
Linda From Maine wrote:
Photo Gallery is for sharing; unless specifically asked in the opening, don't offer criticism.
...
Photo Analysis is technical-problem specific, such as "why are my pictures blue?" There is a guidelines doc that helps explain. That section is administered by site Admin:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-19061-1.html
...
Photo Analysis is technical-problem specific, such as "why are my pictures blue?" There is a guidelines doc that helps explain. That section is administered by site Admin:
https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-19061-1.html
CHG_CANON wrote:
Pixeldawg, I use an easy to follow rule of thumb: unless the OP state something like "comments and critiques welcome", save your helpful comments for those who do make this comment ...
I am taking an unassuming approach, albeit perhaps simplistic as I have NOT researched your posts to determine what fraction offer unsolicited criticism, excluding those in UHH sections where solicitation of criticism is assumed.
I present here the webpage corresponding to the URL Linda From Maine cited above. I have highlighted in boldface type the paragraph I want to direct your attention to.
Admin wrote:
So Pixeldawg, even here, it appears that solicitation of criticism must be explicitly requested. It appears that people feel comfortable giving unsolicited positive feedback. Thus, I submit there merely exists a selection bias that is responsible for your lament.TITLE: Photo Analysis - - Rules, please read... (show quote)
Feb 21, 2020 21:27:35 #
lev29 wrote:
This thread is becoming like the skit "Who's on First?" 🙄So Pixeldawg, even here, it appears that solicitation of criticism must be explicitly requested. It appears that people feel comfortable giving unsolicited positive feedback. Thus, I submit there merely exists a selection bias that is responsible for your lament.
Criticism isn't applicable in Photo Analysis because that is not the section's purpose. That forum is for technical problem-solving.
Constructive criticism is the sole reason the Photo Critique section exists. Or is supposed to be the sole reason, but that's a story for a different day.
RobertJerl mentioned a section that provide critique which I had forgotten:
Professional and Advanced Portraiture.
.
Feb 21, 2020 21:37:47 #
Feb 21, 2020 21:46:29 #
Feb 21, 2020 22:04:52 #
Feb 21, 2020 22:17:40 #
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