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Timing to go mirrorless?
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Nov 2, 2018 06:24:59   #
aphelps Loc: Central Ohio
 
JD750 wrote:
I have been shooting with a mirrorless M43 camera since about 2005. M43 is my go-to travel and adventure kit. I recently purchased a new OM-D body and I love it. It has fast become my carry around every day camera.


Finally, a good word for Olympus. They were one of the first out with mirrorless and the m43 format does indeed reduce size and weight. While it is true that mirrorless FF do not offer much in size and weight reduction that is certainly not the case in m43 cameras. BTW, Olympus makes fine quality optical systems for medical, high tech as well as cameras. They truly are an optical imaging company.

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Nov 2, 2018 06:44:02   #
johneccles Loc: Leyland UK
 
I changed to "Mirrorless" many years ago and have never regretted it at, the time only Olympus and Panasonic were readily available so I chose an Olympus. Both Panasonic and Olympus are excellent cameras although the Olympus menu has a steep learning curve, currently I actually I now own an Olympus and a Panasonic and in reality the image quality is excellent in both cameras.
There are several more mirrorless cameras available now so, once you have decided which model you like the best, go ahead you won't regret it.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:03:51   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
andymac wrote:
I understand that some of the Sony are of comparable capabilities. A friend has a Sony mirrorless and set of lenses that are significantly smaller and more manageable that my gear.

your thoughts on timing - is it the right time to convert or to move forward with my D850 purchase knowing that there will likely come a clear time to make the switch?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!


I'm biased because I already made the switch and am totally satisfied in my choice. Here's my two cents.

If committed to a complete switch to Canon or Nikon mirrorless giving up your current lenses and DSLR bodies, its not the time to do it. OTOH if you want to continue to use your Can-ikon gear but want to dabble in mirrorless then their offerings make sense, budget permitting.

I went from Nikon (D500 and D850) whole hog into Sony. Features, size and weight were factors and a few things most people don't mention.

No lens calibration. If you are a heavy user, no periodic adjustment to compensate for wear and tear. No noise (sound), if you choose. No vibration due to mirror and shutter slap. My bird photography has not suffered. Once I understood the camera and dialed in the appropriate settings I think it has improved.

Any time you make a camera brand change it takes awhile to make the adjustment. In my opinion reviews that just compare specs or are based on limited use should be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:19:18   #
Doel Loc: Newfoundland
 
I have a Sony A6000 and Canon DSLRs. Maybe I m doing something wrong, but I don’t find the mirrorless images as sharp , as nice , as the DSLR images. Does anyone else have this experience?

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Nov 2, 2018 07:21:15   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Doel wrote:
I have a Sony A6000 and Canon DSLRs. Maybe I m doing something wrong, but I don’t find the mirrorless images as sharp , as nice , as the DSLR images. Does anyone else have this experience?


Lens quality?
Canon has the best.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:32:29   #
zug55 Loc: Naivasha, Kenya, and Austin, Texas
 
Doel wrote:
I have a Sony A6000 and Canon DSLRs. Maybe I m doing something wrong, but I don’t find the mirrorless images as sharp , as nice , as the DSLR images. Does anyone else have this experience?

Lens quality may indeed be the issue. If you use the 16-50mm kit lens that would explain it. There are good lenses available for the a6000 though.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:36:26   #
wildweasel
 
I switched to the M 4/3 system about a year and a half ago and have not regretted it. I went from a Nikon D750 FF with a battery pack and a Tamron 150-600 mm lens that together weighted nearly 8 pounds. My back and arms were paying for it and I am in fairly good shape as a 2 years ago retired firefighter . I researched everything I could and I decided on the Olympus EM 1 Mark ll. For wildlife I paired this with a Panasonic-Leica 100-400 lens and for landscapes a M Zuiko 12-100 F/4 pro lens, this covers a 35mm equivalent of 24-800 mm . This system has put the fun back into my photography. I captured this shot a couple of days ago from a bouncing boat from about 30 yards away using the Panasonic @ 400mm and iso 1000.



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Nov 2, 2018 07:37:45   #
Doel Loc: Newfoundland
 
I have three Sony lens that are equivalent to the Canon sizes, but really not pleased. Went through the whole set up of Sony . I guess it is lightweight. Oh well, will have to keep snapping.. lol

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Nov 2, 2018 07:39:08   #
Haydon
 
Unless you go micro 4/3's you will not see a big weight advantage because the lenses will still be large and heavy. Both Canon & Nikon are neophytes in mirrorless cameras and need to evolve more to match the other manufacturers offerings. I can't see Nikon or Canon abandoning their lens lineup anytime soon considering their legacy in producing glass for many years.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:40:18   #
rmm0605 Loc: Atlanta GA
 
andymac wrote:
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that digital photography is moving toward mirrorless cameras and associated lens systems. I have significant Nikon equipment for my bird and nature photography interests including a 500mm F4 and 300mm F2.8 prime lenses. I have a recently purchased D500 I love and have been saving for a D850 - which I have anticipated buying at during the end of the year sales when I hope to see a modest discount to the long stable initial price.

I have come to the realization that at some point there is likely to be an significant advantage such as size and weight of gear - and even technical innovation leadership - to move to a full mirrorless setup.
I understand that there is an adapter to allow me to continue to use my current lenses with the new Nikon mirrorless cameras...but I am not sure that I would necessarily stay with Nikon if I go mirrorless. Steve Perry's evaluation of the new Nikon mirrorless suggested that they are not yet as capable (insufficient burst mode buffering) as current DSLR offerings for action bird photography. I understand that some of the Sony are of comparable capabilities. A friend has a Sony mirrorless and set of lenses that are significantly smaller and more manageable that my gear.

I know from regularly reading the Forum that there are many very thoughtful and knowledgeable members - and maybe some that have already made this transition. So I would like to ask for your thoughts on which companies currently appear to be the true leaders in mirrorless cameras and lens systems - especially as applicable to bird photography. And more specifically, knowing that the technology will continue to evolve, your thoughts on timing - is it the right time to convert or to move forward with my D850 purchase knowing that there will likely come a clear time to make the switch?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that ... (show quote)


Andy, I am going through the same analysis. My Nikon gear can't be beat in 35mm DLSRs, but it's weigh (!) too heavy. I'm having back problems that are preventing me from using the D850 with any lens that weighs more than a few ounces. I am going to be RENTING a FUIJIFILM X-T3 later this month. I'm also renting two lenses. Aftermarket mfgrs have lens adapters for Nikon "G" lenses to Fuji X mount, but there isn't one automatic adapter. So all Nikon lenses that I might keep can only be used in manual mode.

Things are not meant to be easy, I guess. In my case I must act if I'm to keep on doing photography!

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Nov 2, 2018 07:42:14   #
dave.m
 
As I get older, weight and bulk really matter much more than even a few years ago.

As a long term Canon user, like many others I have invested in lenses, that if traded in for a complete system swap would lose much more than that on a body alone.

I had a brilliant Panasonic mirrorless as a backup or 'travel light' system. Superb as it was I very reluctantly traded for a Canon M5 mirrorless because it meant I don't need yo carry extra lenses when using as a backup. If there had been a Panasonic - EF mount converter I would still have it. The M50 is a great camera but even if newer spec than the Panasonic, is functionality not as good. Still a great camera though, and with a x1.6 crop instead of the smaller M4/3 gives x1.6 zoom benefit if required. Benefits - same system (with adaptor) for Canon EF lenses, small, lightweight, less stuff to carry etc etc.

I've just traded in my EOS6DII with Sigma 24-105 art EF for the EOS R with 24-105 RF. The difference is bulk and weight is important to me - the R + 24-105 is 1360g vs. 1650, and size is 135x180mm vs. 144x about 180 ???? (don't know overall length as don't have kit anymore, and adding manufacturer's sizes no good as camera body is measured to outside of battery compartment, and lens includes mount which goes inside body.)

Also save accessories clutter as all filters now 77m instead of 82 for Sigma. (yes I know the Canon EF 24-105 is lighter and uses 77mm filters but when i tested the Sigma was substantially better IQ)

Now for you young guys over 1/2lb in weight is no big deal but 1/2lb here are there mounts up - sufficiently that last week a long trudge up a 1:10 and often 1:7 hill I just took the camera body + lens, tripod and filters and spare battery in my pocket.

So mirrorless is just so much more portable for me - and I accept the Canon models are overpriced, has other faults (depending on your perspective), but also has benefits such as better sensor, 64k focusing points, really snappy focusing, brilliant EVF, non-clunking shutter, 5EV image stabilisation, and high burst rate. I also really like the real-time histogram in the EVF or live view (if I choose), and seeing the image preview in EVF (so much less 'chimping' :)

Of course using EF lenses saves no weight at all, in fact adds a few grams for the adaptor, but as RF 'L' lenses become available for the focal lengths I use, then I can gradually change those if I choose.

I predict in 10 years this debate will be as historical as those who advocate film is the ONLY proper photography medium, and REAL photographers ONLY use manual :)

So echoing other sentiments: if you really like the results from your Nikon lenses, compare the benefits/ downsides of changing to mirrorless. For me they were well worth it, for you, only you can tell. If they are marginal for you, sit tight. If not then if you really like your Nikon glass then hire/ test the Nikon mirrorless body. If your glass is no big deal then hire/ test a body of your choice and a couple of lenses in your favourite focal lengths.

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Nov 2, 2018 07:51:53   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Size and weight mean nothing to me. The exception is when I have to bring a camera that will fit into a pocket. Otherwise, I go for quality of image and ease of use. When I decide to buy a new camera, I always consult the comparison sites.

(Reviews) https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCameraStoreTV/videos
http://www.cameradecision.com/
http://cameras.reviewed.com/
http://camerasize.com/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
http://snapsort.com/compare
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

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Nov 2, 2018 08:16:50   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
andymac wrote:
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that digital photography is moving toward mirrorless cameras and associated lens systems. I have significant Nikon equipment for my bird and nature photography interests including a 500mm F4 and 300mm F2.8 prime lenses. I have a recently purchased D500 I love and have been saving for a D850 - which I have anticipated buying at during the end of the year sales when I hope to see a modest discount to the long stable initial price.

I have come to the realization that at some point there is likely to be an significant advantage such as size and weight of gear - and even technical innovation leadership - to move to a full mirrorless setup.
I understand that there is an adapter to allow me to continue to use my current lenses with the new Nikon mirrorless cameras...but I am not sure that I would necessarily stay with Nikon if I go mirrorless. Steve Perry's evaluation of the new Nikon mirrorless suggested that they are not yet as capable (insufficient burst mode buffering) as current DSLR offerings for action bird photography. I understand that some of the Sony are of comparable capabilities. A friend has a Sony mirrorless and set of lenses that are significantly smaller and more manageable that my gear.

I know from regularly reading the Forum that there are many very thoughtful and knowledgeable members - and maybe some that have already made this transition. So I would like to ask for your thoughts on which companies currently appear to be the true leaders in mirrorless cameras and lens systems - especially as applicable to bird photography. And more specifically, knowing that the technology will continue to evolve, your thoughts on timing - is it the right time to convert or to move forward with my D850 purchase knowing that there will likely come a clear time to make the switch?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Over the last year I have seen growing signs that ... (show quote)

I currently use the D500 and shoot with the new Nikon 500 5.6 lens. I use Group Auto Focus, continuous auto focus, center weighted metering, and shoot at a minimum of 1/1500 sec. My keeper rate is 98%. When a mirrorless delivers a better keeper rate I might consider switching. I have the Nikon 200-500 mounted on my other D500, or I sometimes use the D850 with the 500 5.6 lens. Same keeper rate, I have the D5 battery in the D850 so I get 9 fps. Again, when mirrorless can best my keeper rate, I MIGHT consider switching. I win awards and sell my images at one man shows. My next show will be in Youngstown, Ohio next fall. (I will get out more information about that show next spring).
I do not believe they will discount the D850 this holiday season. It is still on back order several places and Nikon cannot keep up with the demand. They will discount the D810 but not the D850.
No mirrorless company has the variety of lenses available that can match Nikon and Canon using the adapter. And Sony falls short on the variety of lenses available for their mirrorless. As far as weight goes. The new Nikon500 5.6 (Sony has NOTHING that can match it's reach and weight) Canon has a very nice 400MM f4 that I wish Nikon made.
So, mirrorless has come a long way BUT, it is not equaled the lens selection that Canon and Nikon currently offer, and won't in my lifetime. So, for now, those of you who own and use Sony, my hat is off to you, you have made a good choice and I am happy for you. But I will stick with the brand that has brought me great images for over 50 years and appears not to be going anywhere. Again, when mirrorless beats my keeper rate, I MIGHT consider it.

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Nov 2, 2018 08:18:58   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
warrior wrote:
1. Sony is NOT a camera co. Its a electronics co.


WOW! I had not thought of that!!! I guess if cameras were dependent on electronics instead of being totally mechanical, then Sony would be THE company to go to for cameras. Thanks for clear....


Oh? WHAT???? Cameras have electronics?!?!?!?! REALLY????

But not a lot, right?

Wow. That much Huh?

Maybe I should switch to Sony.

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Nov 2, 2018 08:19:58   #
sergio
 
The weight of a camera is mainly in lens and not in the body.
I sincerely cannot see the advantage of the mirrorless.

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