RowYourVold

This is a very specific request, but I haven't found anything on the Googles or forums, so hoping some Hogs can help out!

I'm doing an engagement session for a couple in San Francisco City Hall, and a lot of the research I've done suggests that off-camera flash will help tremendously to get the results I have in mind. Searching through the official rules at http://sfcityhallevents.org/film-photo it lists two main criteria for flash:

1. Lighting equipment must be battery-operated.
2. Do not use flash equipment that will cause a significant visual disturbance.

Number 1, check. No issues with my Yongnuo speedlight.
Number 2... what the heck defines a "significant visual disturbance?" A bare flash going off for a cool backlight effect? A flash with an attached modifier like a MagMod/GaryFong/Rogue Flashbender? A flash on a stand with a shoot-through umbrella? A certain level of flash power? That pretty much covers the scenarios for my current gear...

I'd really appreciate any advice from someone who has shot with flash indoors at SF City Hall and can tell me roughly what their equipment/setup was, and if they ever ran into issues with causing a "significant visual disturbance" in the process. Not looking to steal anyone's ideas or "what were your settings" type questions, just general pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago

Visual disturbance means to me flash in the eyes. As well as light stands set up. So we are talking about using bounce flash or natural light.Go test it out on Friday to check out your settings and ISO.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

Call City Hall and ask them. I would think it would be ok to use flash on your camera with a flash frame and an on-flash modifier like the gary fong or similar, but not a seperate stand with an umbrella etc. But I'd clarify with the city or check their website. The last thing you want to do is bring a bunch of equipment into the City Hall and then have to lug it all back to your car before you even get started.

RowYourVold

Thanks, good point! I checked the website but a direct call will hopefully help get some more clarity. Appreciate the quick response!

canon Lee

HI Simple is better... As you can see in the image I posted, that exposure was good. I used a wide angle lens, 2.8mm, got close as I could, no diffuser, pointed to the celling, shot RAW, asked where I could shoot from,. Positioned the couple to the best ambient light I could... Forget umbrellas ( celings are a huge umbrella)... Bounce flash, since you are good at that... You are over thinking this shoot. Do what you already know you are good at... Tweak in LR>. Most city hall shots I have taken wasnt formal at all.. I never heard of an "engagement" shoot at city hall, but rather doing engagement shoots at a park or other scenic areas...

mas24 Loc: Southern CA

Heck! They won't even let you bring in an external flash for a High School Basketball Game. One can only guess what the policies are at City Hall in San Francisco. There must be several, I'm sure. And nothing to do with photography either.

Lens Creep

visual disturbance sounds like a flash to me, but interested to hear how they clarify for you.
At face value, this seems to suggest continuous lighting such as battery operated LED panels. I got a cheapish one for $75 that is small but gives nice fill and has tunable color temp.
good luck

msuner

SF City Hall is rather spacious, so bouncing your light may be a little tricky. If you have a way to regulate the power output of your flash on your speedlight, I would reduce it as much as possible. Play with it before you do any serious shooting. My rule of thumb is to keep people away from walls or any objects where a telltale shadow would/could be cast.

Secondly I would boost my ISO depending on the camera, use a fast lens and try using ambient light. The following link should reveal an image an image that was shot inside of a club at night using ambient lighting. The ISO was pushed to 6400. I was shooting with a Nikon D750, Lens: 24.0-120.0 mm f/4.0.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WBiqz3qz0sgLMADeJW3bJS58N4i-RjmO

Sorry for the link. I'm still new here and haven't yet learned to post a photo.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

General advice:

Unless you are very far from the venue, in a different city etc., the best approach is to visit the venue in person, well in advance, speak to the management and security folks there and find out EXACTLY what equipment is permissible and what is restricted. Things like light stands and tripods may be prohibited so you need to know what gear to bring in and devise a plan of operation. You don't want to be bogged down with gear you will not be allowed to use or inversely, leave behind something you may actually need to do you best work.

I advise, as it suggests in the link you have posted, for you to secure a permit as it may include access or special privileges that are not afforded to the general public.

In order to avoid wasted time, distraction and bureaucratic issues during the shoot you need to plan a shooting strategy for example; suppose you want to use an off camera light only to find that light stands are prohibited. The strategy there would be to enlist the help of an assistant to man the remote lighting gear in a hand held fashion. This will enable you to set up and move about quickly and efficiently, allow you to concentrate on you subjects and finish your work in a timely manner.

It's always good to check out the location in advance to assess the available lighting situation, plan specific locations and backgrounds, determine the need for flash fill or augmented lighting and perhaps plan a time of day when the venu may be less populated.

I don't think that the lighting gear you have listed will constitute a disturbing or intrusive scenario. Modified, portable handheld electronic flash equipment is fairly gentle on the eyes.

Their information sheet states that the have hosted motion picture production etc., so they are not unfamiliar with heavy gear and its accompanying activities. I am sure the are well compensated for theses projects.

Unfortunately, many stringent and restrictive rules are the result of both amateur and professional photographers just walking in and kinda taking over the premises, sometimes causing damage, creating safety hazards and doing things that expose the venue to liability, and disturbing other visitors. All the need is a few photographers to show up with high-wattage tungsten lights, plug in the the mains, pop a few circuit breakers or run cables across the floors and the rules set in. You assurance of professional. safe and discrete conduct will work well in your favor.

I have never been to the venue you have mentioned but I have covered events, as a professional photographer, and utilized location all over North America. I have found that seeking permission and cooperation in advance will always pave the way to an easy, pleasant and productive shoot. I have heard horror stories about certain venues and locations- folks told me they were secured like Fort Knox but once I came in and secured the proper permissions and networked with the authorities, I received nothing but cooperation! People respond well to courtesy and decorum. Oftentimes, secondhand information is exaggerated or inaccurate- the best information and results usually comes in face-to-face situations directly from the folks in charge.

Oh- this is a FORUM ,I don't think that folks are worried about anyone "stealing" secrets from one and other. Most of us like to share our experiences. Good public relations among venue managers is beneficial for all photographers. Sometimes we garner a bad "rap" for the ill advised actions of the minority.

Good luck and kind regards.

RowYourVold

Thanks everyone for all the input so far--you guys rock!

I probably should have added a photo to clarify at the beginning. I attached the type of shot I had envisioned (using one I later found from https://sashaweddingphotography.com/city-hall/ since I don't have my own). Unless he got incredibly lucky with well-positioned window light beams, I assume the left image had off-camera flash with a big modifier.

- I'm comfortable with bounce flash, but as some have mentioned, not an option given the huge room size/ceiling height.
- Budget is only $100, and the permit costs $100, so I'm ultimately wanting to keep a low profile and remain the amateur that I honestly am (not a huge production).
- I have a nice fast/wide lens and am comfortable with getting enough "good" shots using only available light, even indoors
- My plan is to save these fancy flash shots for the very end, so even if it doesn't work out I'll have gotten the rest of what I need. I'd just love the chance for a "WOW" shot with lighting, so figured I'd take a chance.
- I can't get to the venue before unfortunately--2 hours away and no time in my schedule, but I will show up 30 mins before the couple to get established
- I'll definitely call and ask for guidance/permission from the site.

I think that covers most of what I read--thanks again for all the input!

canon Lee

Your photos are very good and professional... Just wondering why you are so questioning? You have your act together. I thought you were concerned about an "engagement" shoot @ city hall?

GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City

I thought the same, until I re-read his post:

"I attached the type of shot I had envisioned (using one I later found from https://sashaweddingphotography.com/city-hall/ since I don't have my own).
Unless he got incredibly lucky with well-positioned window light beams, I assume the left image had off-camera flash with a big modifier."

Beautiful venue!

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Row, I have done two small weddings at City Hall.
You can do almost anything you want there.
It would be hard to cause a disturbance there!! LoL
The building is huge and mostly well lit by natural
Light. I assume you will be upstairs or on the large main staircase.
By all means take a light stand and a strobe if that’s what you want. I’ve just used a stand with a small diffuser on it for the ceremony then just mount my flash to the camera dialed back about a stop or more just for light fill. I’ve never tried to bounce, in the rotunda the building is several hundred feet high, it’s a massive building! After the engagement ceremony is over, just rove all over the building doing poses. In front of the huges semicircular windows is great and lots of beautiful walls and all over the main staircase etc. It’s a really fun place to shoot. If the weather is good sometimes there are really cool art installations out front in the huge quad or whatever that is.
To bad, I was supposed to have shot there yesterday but my shoot fell apart at the last minute. To bad, since she is a Model I could have posted tons of shots for you. I’ll see if I have any without the wedding in them. Sorry, I don’t post private shots!!!
If you have a question, just ask! Good luck
SS

RowYourVold

Thank you! It's my first paid couple's shoot (I am more confident in family photography) and I only do this on the side--this time is for a coworker and her fiance who have always wanted pictures in the City Hall. So really it's a couple's shoot, for a couple who happens to be engaged, and they want their scenic location to be indoors in the City Hall staircase area, rather outdoors like I'm more familiar with.

I appreciate the support though! Always tough on my own work :-)

RowYourVold

Haha that makes more sense... I thought he had gone and found my website! Oh well, I'll take the positive vibes anyway!