bkijek Loc: Oak Lawn, Illinois

Hello -

I faithfully read this forum everyday. I’ve learned a hell of a lot following the forum for just one month. I could probably ask a question a day but I don’t want to monopolize everybody’s time.

However, I have two questions after reading this morning’s forum:

1. During the discussion about ISO, somebody mentioned that HIS camera could be used at ISO 6400 without creating much noise. Do different cameras have different maximum ISO settings that will not create intolerable noise? What about my Canon T6?

2. During the discussion concerning photo editing, nobody mentioned Canon’s free Digital Photo Professional 4. Any opinions? What do the big Kahunas like Lightroom and Photoshop do that DPP can’t?

As always, thanks.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Quick response, it depends upon the camera's sensor and a few other things. Camera sensors vary in quality, and many regard Sony sensors to be the leader currently. That said Canon is no slouch and is closing the gap.

The T6 is based on fairly old technology, pretty much the same as my T3i. It's a good camera, but my 80D which has one of Canon's best APS-C sensors to date is substantially better in the ISO and noise department.

I use DPP as my first port of call, it is relatively simple and easy to use but delivers good results. It does not catalog things as LR does, nor does it have the capabilities of PS or PSP, but it is a good raw image processor for Canon files and may be all you need for basic work. It imports the camera settings by default for raw .CR2 files but allows for full adjustment. It can also export directly to Adobe PS or to jpeg, 8 or 16 bit TIFF.

DPP is worth checking out.

bkijek Loc: Oak Lawn, Illinois

Thanks, Peter

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

bk, welcome to the Hog!
ALL cameras produce noise and at 6400 the noise will be substantial on ANY camera. Is it usable? That depends on what the use is.
It's best to control noise at the time of shooting by using as low an ISO as possible, but I realize it's not always possible And not underexposing. Cameras today not only handle noise better than older cameras but better cameras handle noise better than less expensive cameras. Also the noise suppression in some cameras is very good at eliminating a noisy look but at the expense of sharpness.
Peter has a lot more familiarity with the cameras that you own than I do, I don't know the T-series at all!!
DPP is a VERY good program but all of it's functions are global whereas, Lightroom(LR) can do local adjustments, allowing a much finer tuning of an image but neither has layers. Layers are what gives PS it's power and has the ability to turn a cat into a dog which the other two can't do!
I use DPP for 99% of everything I do which is just to adjust light levels, saturation and highlights/shadows. I use LR for the other 1%.
I don't use PS but likely would if I had a clue how to use it!!! LOL
SS

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

...and its free :-)

crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada

Great summary.
Although I moved from DPP to LR for 99% of my work due to the added functionality and file mgmt and I find its a little easier to navigate. (Thats a preference versus empirical opinion)
PS is 1% and usually have a youtube video running in parallel to guide me to do a very specific and intricate task. When I retire, i may invest the 10,000 hours of time needed to become competent in PS:-)

DPP is a great place to start. Its free. Learn it. And then try LR trial and decide if the 100 bucks per year for LR CC is worth the incremental benefits over the free DPP.

LarryFitz Loc: Beacon NY

I have a T6 as well just post a panorama of grand central terminal in panorama section. I was using Iso:3200
I started using dpp, it provided me with the basic tools to enhance my images. Helped switch me from jpg to raw. Then I started using the many 30 day y trials available, select laminar for easy of use and features it provided, plus being on future upgrades.
Have fun with your camera, hope y you continue using uhh.

mikedidi46 Loc: WINTER SPRINGS, FLORIDA

I use DPP but I also use Lightroom, about your camera, maybe 6400 is okay, I have gone all the way to 25,600 on my 70D, just do not enlarge

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

One advantage of DPP despite its limitations, (if you shoot Canon) is that it does produce less noise in the raw conversion than ACR in the tests I’ve done. This may be because DPP applies the in-camera settings (contrast, sharpness, etc.) to its raw files as well as JPEGs, which ACR and other raw converters typically do not.

speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho

Yes, different cameras handle noise differently, some are much better than others! The Rebel line-up represents pretty much the bottom. One can hardly compare PS to DPP, because DPP just does a very few things, while PS can pretty much do it all!

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

I Indicated I shoot as high as ISO 6400 on my 7D Mark II, on that thread, with good results. Perhaps it was me you were referring to. Newer sensors tend to generate less noise at higher ISO settings than older ones. Each new generation seems to improve on today capability.

I also use DPP. Additionally I have been an Adobe Lightroom user since version 3 and I've recently acquired DXO Photolab which is now my go-to raw editor. And...on top of all that I've just downloaded the free trial of Capture One to better understand its capabilities and the quality of its results.

Can I assume that you are shooting Raw? If you are not shooting raw you can still use DPP but much of it's excellent functionality will not be available to you. It's a great starting point for learning raw processing, and it's free. For some folks it may be the only program they'll ever need.

The main advantage of DPP for Canon shooters is that, unlike most raw processing programs, like Adobe Lightroom, DPP shows your images with the in-camera settings for things like contrast, sharpness, picture style, and color tone already applied. It also has very decent noise reduction capabilities for those high ISO images. Most third party raw programs don't read or understand Canon's in-camera settings so you're presented with a clean slate where the image tends to look flat and dull before you start applying changes.

Because it is free software the feature set is much more limited than the software you pay for. Lightoom, for example, has many, many more features and controls, including the ability to modify and enhance a specific portion of an image. All of DPP's functions are global, meaning they modify the entire image. And as capable as DPP is, third party software is generally superior when it comes to extracting details from deep shadow areas, and applying noise reduction.

It's a great tool to get started with raw processing, and may be all you'll ever need. If you outgrow it and want more, you'll know it, and won't need us to tell you that you're ready for something more. The look and feel, general concepts, layout, and tools are similar to the big boys, so once you know how to use DPP, learning to use more feature-rich software will be a bit less difficult.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Well said. My workflow has evolved to converting raw with DPP and then exporting directly (there’s an entry in the menu) into PS for layers and pixel level editing.

bkijek Loc: Oak Lawn, Illinois

Everybody -

Thanks for the input.

Just as I thought, different cameras generate different levels of noise at various ISO settings. From what I gather, my Canon T6 is at the lower end of DSLRs when it comes to noise reduction.

Concerning my question about photo editing software, your comments are helping me to assess the comparative value of DPP versus all the other photo editors.

So, here is what I think after being in the DSLR world for six weeks. I spent what is, for me, a lot of money to purchase the T6 because I wanted to upgrade from the point and shoot world. Over time, I know that this objective will be met. However, along the way, I developed an attitude that I wanted to create photos that are as good as the professionals. With a T6, this objective will not be met. But what I need to tell myself is “so what.” I never will be a professional photographer (I’m 71 and I don’t have the patience or drive to develop my skills to a professional level.). My realistic goal is to create photos that will look great when I blow them up to 20x30 and plaster them all over my house.

I think this goal will be met with the continued help from you UHers.

Thanks again, everybody.

PS - I know one gets what one pays for. However, I forgot how much photography enthusiasts spend to get their desired results. I should have remembered this. Forty years ago, when I was young and single, I “needed” to buy the more expensive Mamiya 645 (2 1/4 format) rather than a 35 mm camera.



As for DPP, it’s good enough for my skill level. However, I think I might try Lightroom or Photoshop for a while after I get back from my western vacation this fall.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Don't sell your camera short. Get off auto mode as soon as possible, if you're still on it ,and learn the semi auto or manual modes to get the best from it. It may have some limitations relative to higher level cameras but the T6 is still capable of creating excellent images. Once you are comfortable with your camera and lenses, taking great pictures will be more about your understanding of composition, the use of light, and the exposure triangle (aperture/shutterspeed/ISO). Have fun!

As an added note I don't print out much and certainly never that large. Most of my images are for my own pleasure on my 28" 4K monitor or for sharing on line. The attached image was taken a couple of years ago with my Canon 7D Mark II and Canon EF-s 15-85mm lens. The post processing of the raw file was done recently in DXO PhotoLab Elite. If you click on "download" under the picture you will be able to see the image full page. If you then click on that image you will be able to see it at full resolution.

(Download)

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

I completely agree. The T6 is a good camera, as is my T3i still, they're not that dissimilar, and my wife is happy with her T2i, which is also similar. Learn to use the camera, learn to use DPP, when you need to move on you will know. Do you need to print as large as you say? When well framed with a good sized mat even a letter size print can be quite impressive. The Canon Pixma Pro series printers are not too expensive if found on a deal and can print at 12x19. The frames will cost you plenty enough.