JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Well, since this thread seems to have run its course on where Amazon will locate and has morphed into a socio-political-cultural commentary, let me express a few thoughts and concerns related to being Canadian, American, or other.

As stated previously, I have travelled the world more than the average person, so I think I have a reasonably "broad and worldly" perspective on life in other countries. My travels have involved personal vacations where the main objectives have been to see the "real" country and understand the local people; they have NOT been visits to fancy hotels and resorts. Furthermore, several of my trips have been for durations of 3-4 months, so not your average and myopic 7-10 day glimpse of "the tourist facade" as seen by the average tourist. I have also travelled extensively on government business, so I got to interact with colleagues in similar positions and living status. I state this to substantiate my belief that I have seen and experienced a broad slice of life in other countries of the world.

Going beyond simply visiting, while I have lived most of my life in Canada I have also lived in the US on two occasions for a total of seven years, and for 20 months in the UK. These periods of foreign residency have given me a deeper insight into the culture and politics of those three nations.

Now, if I had to rank those three countries for preference I would first ask what the criteria are for that ranking. If history and heritage then the UK would rank #1; if geography and variety of spectacular scenery then clearly the US; if "citizenship" (as respected around the world) it would be Canada. If the question were simply my general preference I would still say Canada, but with the US a very close second (sorry UK). I realize that Canada and the US have very different political systems, but our standards of living, ethics, values, services, amenities, etc, etc, are so similar that I could quite happily live in the US. The US has been the leader of the free world and the exemplar/defender of democracy for many years, and I am most grateful that Canada and the US have had such good relations (the world's longest undefended border, no less!! OMG -- does Trump know that? "Shit, Kelly... do we need another wall? What? It's HOW long???").

That is why I am so concerned with where the US finds itself in the world today, and it is largely because of President Trump. But then again, when you are Number One there is only one way to fall. Trump's policy of America First has, despite whatever successes you may want to ascribe to his first year in office, caused the US to lose leadership and respect in the world, as evidenced by recent polls. He has alienated many foreign leaders (e.g., Germany; UK; even China), has snubbed NATO and the UN, has pulled out -- or threatened to pull out -- of many vital trade agreements (like TPP and NAFTA) rather than renegotiate them to get a better deal for ALL partners, he has denied climate change and gone backwards on regulations to limit carbon emissions, he is confusing/losing allies around the world with his flip-flops and childish tweets, .... I could go on and on.

In short, while Trump may be a sharp business person who believed he could drain the swamp and fix Washington, he is not the right person to be President, plain and simple. He does not have the personality nor the understanding of diplomacy to be a world leader (what world leader in his right mind speaks of Shithole Nations, claims all Haitians have AIDS, and says Nigerians should go back to their huts?), he has no interest in his job other than it being a check box on his bucket list (do you think he even read his job description?), he does not have the trust of the majority of the citizens of the US (lowest popularity of any president in history). He has an ego almost as big as the US, he is a narcissist, he is a liar (1,950 lies in 2017) , a bigot, he can never lose or be wrong, he will never apologize for anything.... again, on and on.

Years ago countries could hide the uglier aspects of internal politics but with today's connectivity the entire world gets to see everything in real time. The US is going through some really difficult times right now and I wish them success in straightening things out at home and regaining their esteemed status in the world. I for one DO NOT want to see ANY other country taking on the world leadership that the US has enjoyed for the last 80 or so years. So PLEASE get your act together!!!

Dennis, this was a response to your post, but I address Pegasus as well in closing: I like the US, and I like Americans in general, but I have zero admiration for your Liar in Chief, the man who has Made America Grate Again on the world stage. When I started this political tangent I pointed to only one American. It was Peg who started slandering Canadians as a nation, which caused me to defend my fellow citizens. There are good and bad people on both sides of the border, so one hopes that a few bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch. Like it or not, POTUS singularly represents America, its citizens, and its values on the world stage, and I don't know how Americans can feel good about his behaviour. Even Leon Panetta has expressed his hope that the world not see Trump as exemplifying the American people. If tax reform ends up being good for the economy, then fine... go for it. If you come up with something better than the ACA for health care, great. If you can fix immigration to make the US (and ultimately North America) more secure then I am all for it. I don't think it really matters whether its the Dems or the Repubs who are in power as long as they govern the country decently. But for God's sake open your eyes and ears and see Trump for what and who he really is at the core. The man is a tumour on your country, and I truly hope KJU of NK is not the doctor who uses radiation therapy to get rid of the cancer, because the side effects of the treatment will be dire and long lasting for everyone.

JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Here is an article on why Toronto made the short list:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/20/technology/amazon-toronto-hq/index.html

The article highlights a number of aspects that make the city favourable: "An outlier on Amazon's list, Toronto has earned the attention of the technology world due to its diverse population, talent pool and welcome stance on immigration."

Although economics (real estate, taxes, etc) will clearly be a factor it is not mentioned in the article, but political policy might just play a role: "The Trump administration has moved to tighten access to H-1B visas, a popular route to tech jobs for foreign workers. Its 2017 travel ban for six majority-Muslim countries also rattled the tech industry, triggering foreigners to give more serious consideration to education and work outside the U.S."

GO TEAM CANADA!!!

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

Mr. Frim, allow me to explain a few things about the H-1B visas and why they are so hated by many and by extension why the Trump administration wants to tighten up on them.

I work in IT. I've been in IT for over 45years. In the heady days of the 70s and especially the 80s, there was something called a "Minicomputer," that was in the news a lot. Those computers were red-hot and being deployed all over the place. In those days you have the monster mainframes that started at 7 figures and ramped up from there, and you had those minicomputers that were far less expensive and had a much smaller footprint. The mainframes (IBM, etc) ran mostly in batch mode and the minicomputers (HP, DEC, Sun, etc) ran in interactive mode with some batch. I worked with minicomputers. We developed applications in-house because packages (apps) did not really exist in those days; they came later on.

One thinks that corporations keep up to date technology-wise, but that's not the case. These minicomputers grew to be very powerful machines and the applications that were developed by the companies themselves became very ubiquitous within these companies. They grew, and they pervaded most aspects of the companies. The in-house IT staff kept looking for ways to use the systems to help the business; they made plans, they talked to their fellow employees and the had the company's best interest at heart.

In the 90s, companies such as HP "discovered" India. They found a fairly educated bunch of people who spoke and who could read and write in "English." They were also ready to work for peanuts. So they set up shop in there and hired Indians to write code. The architects and specialists were in the US and the coders worked in India. Over time, the Indians started coming over to the US to work. This simplified the logistics in many case, and these people worked for a lot less money that the US workers were paid. These Indian came over to work on these H-1B visas.

The big tech companies love these visas because they can bring in smart, educated, "English-"speaking workers that are a lot cheaper and they lobbied Washington to expand the H-1B visa program so they could get more. They used statistics that said there were not enough US citizens and residents to fill the positions they needed filled and they had to go overseas to bring them in.

Around the turn of the millennium, the outsourcing model was ramping up rapidly. This is where a big body-shop company would take over the IT departments of big companies to run and support the systems for them. Their pitch was that company XYZ was not in the IT business, they were into building cars, running hotels, etc. The would propose to do all the IT for the company and they would set up SLAs to make everyone happy. Since they would bring in cheap labor from India, or use their offshore teams to do a lot of the support, they could propose aggressive prices. They would even hire some of the existing IT staff, for continuity.

That took off big time. The decision was easy for management; they would save millions of dollars, get a bonus from it and then in a few years the folks who made the outsourcing decision would move on to other locales and do it again.

In the event, the companies that had outsourced their IT came to realize that they had also outsourced their soul. The outsourcing company didn't give a damn about what was good for their customer, they just worked to meet the SLAs. IT innovation took a dive in these companies and they had to hire consultants to help them plan for the future. So much for the savings.

I am one of those consultants that work with companies to plan for the future. I know the old systems and how they work and I can move their applications from these old systems to new platforms. I deal with these outsourcing companies that have replaced the IT staff in these companies. I can tell you stories but you would not believe most of them. The damage that was caused by outsourcing is unimaginable. Keeps me very busy though.

There is a car rental company based somewhere in the middle of the country who one day told their entire IT staff they were gone, they had all been replaced by H-IB workers who were a lot cheaper. A few of them were hired by the outsourcing company "for continuity." They usually don't last very long.

There is a magic kingdom in Florida who went one step further and got their IT folks to train their replacement H-1B visa holders. Then they were all fired. These are just a few recent examples, and I know of a lot more.

The H-1B visa program is abused by the big tech companies to the detriment of US workers and that's why the Trump administration wants to slow it down. It has nothing to do with racism or anything like that.

JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Hey, Peg, that is a long story, but I believe everything you say.

It is my belief that nothing in life is really free -- eventually someone has to pay. In your example, surely some folks would argue that the concept of new companies providing specialized IT support is an example of job creation that is good for the economy. And the business model is also sound -- reduced costs (lower salaries for H1-B staff) and aggressive marketing of tailored services yielding more business contacts will lead to higher profits. I suspect Trump himself would be the first to endorse anything that would reduce his business operating costs while increasing profits ("US guy, you're fired. H1-B guy, you're hired!"). One might even argue that, on average, more people employed means more tax revenue for the government, more mouths to feed (immigrant families) who then have to buy more groceries (good for the local grocer, farmer, trucker), more cars, more fuel... more people getting sick and therefore more need for doctors, nurses, hospitals (as in more construction jobs), etc. It is a bit ironic that Trump supports tightening the H1-B visa program when a huge chunk of his staff at Mar-a-Lago are in fact immigrants (H1-B? It matters not.).

The current immigration debate in the US is certainly interesting. On the one hand you have guys like Stephen Miller being flat out totally against immigration of any kind, and on the other you have folks arguing a bit abstractly that the WASP birth rate is not high enough to sustain the upward spiralling economy into the future; hence the need for immigration. Of course, most people would argue in favour of skilled educated immigrants over flunkies and criminals, but don't forget that people like Trump need someone to clean and polish his gold toilet, too.

Economics is EXTREMELY COMPLICATED and I don't think anyone really understands it -- not the professors who teach it, not even the people on Wall Street who live and drive (manipulate???) it every day. Take a really simple example. The clerk in the grocery store wants a pay raise because his cost of living is going up... let's say because the cost of fuel went up. But why did the cost of fuel go up? Maybe because the guy at the gas station got a pay raise to help him maintain his standard of living... because the price of groceries went up... because the grocery store owner had to raise his prices to maintain his profits after giving the grocery store clerk a raise. It's just a vicious circle.

In reality, there are millions of vicious circles that are all intertwined and interconnected. I believe these vicious circles are actually spirals that keep going up and up because people expect not only maintenance of their standard of living, but an increase in quality of life over time. I think if one were to stop the spinning and spiralling the whole system would collapse.

Can you imagine what would happen to the economy if everything -- prices, salaries, etc -- were frozen for 10 years? How could anyone then expect an improvement in their standard of living? There is one example I can think of that would allow an increase in salary without it impacting the cost of goods. If a company could lower production costs via technology/robotics/automation they should be able to increase profits without raising the selling price of the item, and those profits could be shared with employees who would then be able to go out and buy other goods (a new TV or car) that would help the economy. But giving employees a raise just to help them cope, when it ends up raising the price of that company's products, is self-defeating.

Anyway, great to chat with you without ripping Americans vs Canadians.

So, having had a go at politics, should we take a shot at religion? ...... ...... Just kidding. Have great day solving the nation's IT problems (can you fix the Spectre and Meltdown fiasco?).

Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast

In answer to your not-so-hypothetical question and about freezing prices and salaries, the answer is simple: Venezuela.

I should point out that the H-1B visa is designed to let in knowledge workers, not cleaning staff. I would expect Trump, the business man, to have taken advantage of those features. I see Trump, the president, trying to curtail the abuse of the H-1B visa that is so detrimental to US workers.

I never talk religion, that's very private and I think any discussion of it is pure virtue signaling on all sides and of no interest to me. I believe what I believe and what others believe is none of my business. Until they try to foist their belief system on me.

We can talk about Spectre and Meltdown but I'm not worried about it, I apply the patches as they are released. I don't lose sleep over it.