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Ban on Photo Manipulation
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Jan 17, 2018 11:35:57   #
Nikon Shooter17 Loc: Glenwood, MN
 
Again...POSSIBLE social harm......MAY have harmful effects....where does it end....the state I am referring to is the state of mind ....insane political correctness...need to be coddled ...can't offend...no personal accountability...now that I have explained my use of the word state...

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Jan 17, 2018 11:55:57   #
Larrymc Loc: Mississippi
 
Really well said, Connie! This is the most common sense comment in the eight pages I have read so far.

via the lens wrote:
This ban, in fact, is not really about photography but about a company believing that women cannot look at a picture on an advertisement and discern that the picture is not real. It's about a company meaning to do well, but instead insulting the intelligence of women everyone by assuming that they are not able to think and reason things out and then make an appropriate decision.

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Jan 17, 2018 12:06:28   #
Shutterbug57
 
Michael Barrus wrote:
By your thought process your daughter may give some young impressionable girl a complex if she isn't as beautiful.....point being is life blesses some people with good looks....one that passed me by....Teach self respect...self worth...pride etc....


No argument, but you are swimming upstream big time against marketers, Hollywood and the media. Every little bit helps.

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Jan 17, 2018 12:26:37   #
dragonfist Loc: Stafford, N.Y.
 
I have been thinking that this whole thread is a contradiction. We are having a rather long discourse on the ethics of doctoring things to make them beautiful. This being done on a site called The Ugly Hedgehog.

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Jan 17, 2018 13:13:36   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
rehess wrote:
It was the understanding that the more waif-like like you are, the more desirable you are. CVS's policy has little to do with photography as an art; it has everything to do with presentation


And how is CVS' policy going to change that attitude?

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Jan 17, 2018 13:18:39   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
pendennis wrote:
I've never done this before, cross-posting, the same comment on different subjects, but for me, this is an exception, and it goes to the heart of "photo manipulation".

Many of the posters are up in arms concerning manipulation of images in the darkroom or on the computer. But, manipulation is also done by the mere taking of a photograph. While Ansel Adams took great artistic liberty with his negatives, to arrive at a print he felt got his intentions to the viewer, there are far greater numbers of photographs which are manipulative by their mere publication.

In the 1930's, the Department of Agriculture commissioned photographers such as Walker Evans and Dorothea Lange to document the plight of rural America during the Great Depression. Neither Evans nor Lange ran around willy-nilly popping candids of their subjects. Those images were posed and meant to evoke feelings of sympathy and empathy toward the plight of the people on American farms. Just how is that manipulation any less than what Ansel Adams did for his landscapes?

When Eddie Adams' photograph of General Nguyen Loan executing a Vietcong terrorist was published was it pure photojournalism, or was it an attempt to sway public opinion about the Vietnam War?

When Joe Rosenthal took a photo of the Marines raising a second flag on Mt Suribachi, he was accused of manipulating the pose of the Marines who raised the flag. That accusation has been around since 1945, and it refuses to die, even though Mr. Rosenthal stated that he merely recorded the event, and Marine Sgt Bill Genaust's film bears out Rosenthal's version. Did the photo serve U.S. propaganda aims? Absolutely. Was it photojournalism? Absolutely.

So, when we extol the virtues of "photojournalism", don't forget that those photos are also manipulations of the events which were documented.
I've never done this before, cross-posting, the sa... (show quote)

And I think the thing I thought when I saw the other comment: you've managed to stretch the word "manipulate" so much is has ceased to have any meaning. Communication becomes just babble when we stretch words like that.

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Jan 17, 2018 13:25:54   #
Shutterbug57
 
rehess wrote:
And I think the thing I thought when I saw the other comment: you've managed to stretch the word "manipulate" so much is has ceased to have any meaning. Communication becomes just babble when we stretch words like that.



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Jan 17, 2018 13:31:53   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
rehess wrote:
And I think the thing I thought when I saw the other comment: you've managed to stretch the word "manipulate" so much is has ceased to have any meaning. Communication becomes just babble when we stretch words like that.


Sounds like he's using it's actual dictionary definition to me.

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Jan 17, 2018 14:17:53   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
TheDman wrote:
And how is CVS' policy going to change that attitude?


We've already seen some celebrities and models push back on having their images "photoshopped" or manipulated. We've seen many models become ill or worse as a result of being required to be unhealthily skinny. This isn't about photography so much as imagery being used to set unrealistic, unavailable, or unhealthy body image expectations, especially for young women. We already see that in apps that will modify selfie images, and young women wanting to modify their online presence with modified imagery. They clearly believe that their natural form is not adequate, so we are training them to think of themselves as inadequate. The CVS policy may do something to help mitigate that affect. It isn't about art so much as the social consequences.

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Jan 17, 2018 14:22:07   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
Peterff wrote:
We've seen many models become ill or worse as a result of being required to be unhealthily skinny.


Seems like this will only increase as photographers demand models who are already that thin because they cannot Photoshop some pounds off.

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Jan 17, 2018 14:37:57   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
TheDman wrote:
Seems like this will only increase as photographers demand models who are already that thin because they cannot Photoshop some pounds off.


That may happen, but other people support more realistic imagery. We'll have to see how it plays out. It is a supply and demand situation. If the demand diminishes and if the models and other women refuse to live unhealthily things will slowly change, especially if led by models / celebrities with a world wide reputation. It's similar to ageism or racism. Attitudes do change, albeit slowly.

It isn't just about weight or stature, for some it is simply representing their hair, and modifying an image without their permission. It's about their identity, dignity, and self respect. http://petapixel.com/2017/11/15/photographer-apologizes-cutting-actress-hair-cover-photo/

If done with their permission, then that is one thing, but if not it can have consequences.

http://mashable.com/2017/03/24/kate-winslet-bullying-speech/#KKIq6TPp1Pqy , http://www.eonline.com/news/884838/a-history-of-kate-winslet-and-james-cameron-s-relationship-why-their-reunion-for-avatar-is-raising-eyebrows

She is a great actress, and is a pretty normal woman. They come in all shapes, colors and sizes. We just get to pick! What about Jennifer Lawrence, or say Oprah, or Octavia Spencer? Some women are slim, some are not, but beauty, like art, is in the eye of the beholder.

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Jan 17, 2018 19:19:25   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
TheDman wrote:
Sounds like he's using it's actual dictionary definition to me.

That's the problem with a generic definition applied to a particular situation.

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Jan 17, 2018 23:43:02   #
TheDman Loc: USA
 
rehess wrote:
That's the problem with a generic definition applied to a particular situation.


Correct, which is why the whole thing needs to be articulated better. Don't use generic terms if you mean something more specific. The policy sounds like it was written by people who don't know much about photography.

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Jan 18, 2018 19:36:51   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Michael Barrus wrote:
Repectfully disagree


According to democrats and obummer it was.
They touted it over and over.

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Jan 18, 2018 20:12:47   #
Nikon Shooter17 Loc: Glenwood, MN
 
I missed the viciousness....my apology sir
Architect1776 wrote:
According to democrats and obummer it was.
They touted it over and over.

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