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Studio lighting-Speed Lights/ Srobe Lights
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Dec 31, 2017 16:40:57   #
CWW Loc: North Jersey
 
dkguill wrote:
In the studio, either for commercial product photography or portraiture, I have always used strobes. Modifiers are certainly an important component in controlling the light produced by your strobes. I started out using umbrellas and then graduated to soft boxes. My preference is the soft box because of the degree of light control afforded. Using umbrellas, you can opt to shoot through a white translucent fabric or reflect the light off of the inside of the umbrella back at your subject. With soft boxes, you can choose to diffuse the light using one or more layers of translucent fabric in addition to having the option to use bare bulbs for certain effects. I rarely resort to bare bulbs. If you read tutorials on the Internet, you can find many techniques for adjusting soft boxes or umbrellas including the feathering technique that most portrait photographers use. The size of the umbrella or soft box makes a tremendous difference in your ability to distribute the light evenly and to control the degree of softness. How you position your lights with regard to your subject is critical. The closer you can place the diffused light to your subject, the softer the light. Greater distance from the subject increases harshness. The best reason I can think of for spending a little more money on good strobes vs cheaper models is to increase the range or power of those units. The power is normally referred to in Watt Seconds and the greater the Watt seconds, the greater the range of power you have at your disposal. I recommend main lights at 640 WS or more, and some accent lights having at least 320 WS. While you can actually start out with one or two strobes, I recommend a minimum of three for a studio setup. I do use speed lights on and off camera in mobile situations where lugging strobes and power supply is not practical. I have worked with photographers who use speed lights and smaller soft box accessories. Some have soft boxes that accommodate two speed lights in each box. I have not used these and have no opinion of the results except to say that I haven't heard loud complaints. My use of speed lights is mostly limited to providing fill light in outdoor situations, so referring to someone who uses them more extensively would provide better ideas for you. You don't have to spend a ton of money on strobes. Good professional results can be achieved with new or used units having the desired specifications for a few hundred dollars each. Good reliable units like Alien Bees are affordable. See https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Units/ for examples. RF transmitters are nice and I use them extensively, however, don't forget that most good strobes can be hardwired from your camera for studio use. If you are working in your studio by yourself, the practical and cheaper answer may just be IR units like those from Wein for example. We all have our favorites and firm opinions, so UHH members are certain to give you excellent advice from their extensive experience.
In the studio, either for commercial product photo... (show quote)


Great advice and direction. So, start with two radio controlled strobes the have rechargeable batteries and A/C capability, 640 ws. Two soft boxes with multiple diffusers. I believe you put me on the right track. Last question, Does a Pocket Wizard
work with most strobe light manufacturers? Very much appreciated, thanks.

Reply
Dec 31, 2017 17:08:41   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
CWW wrote:
Great advice and direction. So, start with two radio controlled strobes the have rechargeable batteries and A/C capability, 640 ws. Two soft boxes with multiple diffusers. I believe you put me on the right track. Last question, Does a Pocket Wizard
work with most strobe light manufacturers? Very much appreciated, thanks.


Yes. Radio Poppers do, as well.

Look at PaulCBuff.com for their offerings, including their Vagabond series of 115-Volt Lithium Ion battery-inverter portable power solutions.

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Dec 31, 2017 17:25:41   #
dkguill Loc: Elkhart, IN
 
CWW wrote:
Great advice and direction. So, start with two radio controlled strobes the have rechargeable batteries and A/C capability, 640 ws. Two soft boxes with multiple diffusers. I believe you put me on the right track. Last question, Does a Pocket Wizard
work with most strobe light manufacturers? Very much appreciated, thanks.


I chose to use Cyber Commander with the Paul C. Buff Alien Bees. I haven't used the Pocket Wizard but I believe it should work fine with any of the strobes of major manufacturers. Someone on this site can give you a specific answer to that question I'm sure. I am tempted to recommend various soft box designs, but for now you just need the basics and some time to learn how to use them. You'll get plenty of ideas about how to spend your money on accessories. Good luck.

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Dec 31, 2017 17:40:10   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
CWW wrote:
Great advice and direction. So, start with two radio controlled strobes the have rechargeable batteries and A/C capability, 640 ws. Two soft boxes with multiple diffusers. I believe you put me on the right track. Last question, Does a Pocket Wizard
work with most strobe light manufacturers? Very much appreciated, thanks.


I see you've been getting lots of advice! That's great!
I think you're right, I did reverse my comparisons on my first reply!
Though I don't disagree with dk, I'd like to hear where he's ever needed 640ws? LoL
My lights are 500ws and in a studio, can't remember having them over 1/4 power. Yes, they will recycle faster but that is a LOT of power if you don't shoot large groups, like reunions or baseball teams or daylight groups.
200ws lights are adequate for most portrait or smaller groups like families of say 5.
Depending on how much you can spend, it's hard to know what you will need without a bit of experience first. It's no longer like the old Norman days when everybody ran heads on a power-supply. Lots of great choices today.
Though fairly expensive, do look closely at some of the integrated battery lights like the Godex that Goofy has mentioned.
I'm considering new lights and have looked at the Godex(vs very expensive Profoto) to solve a lot of issues with power and portability.
My recommendation for someone just starting would be a decent used set using convertible umbrellas and can be use reflective or shoot-through. Umbrellas are very cheap and a good way to learn what your modifier demands will become. There are so many kinds of softboxes and octas that it boggles the mind of a seasoned shooter.
Then there are the speedrings. If you change lights or modifiers, you might need all new speedrings to mount the lights.
Personally I would move into it cheaply and conservatively, until you have a good understanding of what you want to create, light-wise.
You haven't mentioned WHAT you want to do yet, or maybe I missed that.
Good luck with this complex subject!!!
Maybe lift some shots off the Internet and post them so we can see your goals.
SS

Reply
Dec 31, 2017 18:53:04   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
SharpShooter wrote:
I see you've been getting lots of advice! That's great!
I think you're right, I did reverse my comparisons on my first reply!
Though I don't disagree with dk, I'd like to hear where he's ever needed 640ws? LoL
My lights are 500ws and in a studio, can't remember having them over 1/4 power. Yes, they will recycle faster but that is a LOT of power if you don't shoot large groups, like reunions or baseball teams or daylight groups.
200ws lights are adequate for most portrait or smaller groups like families of say 5.
Depending on how much you can spend, it's hard to know what you will need without a bit of experience first. It's no longer like the old Norman days when everybody ran heads on a power-supply. Lots of great choices today.
Though fairly expensive, do look closely at some of the integrated battery lights like the Godex that Goofy has mentioned.
I'm considering new lights and have looked at the Godex(vs very expensive Profoto) to solve a lot of issues with power and portability.
My recommendation for someone just starting would be a decent used set using convertible umbrellas and can be use reflective or shoot-through. Umbrellas are very cheap and a good way to learn what your modifier demands will become. There are so many kinds of softboxes and octas that it boggles the mind of a seasoned shooter.
Then there are the speedrings. If you change lights or modifiers, you might need all new speedrings to mount the lights.
Personally I would move into it cheaply and conservatively, until you have a good understanding of what you want to create, light-wise.
You haven't mentioned WHAT you want to do yet, or maybe I missed that.
Good luck with this complex subject!!!
Maybe lift some shots off the Internet and post them so we can see your goals.
SS
I see you've been getting lots of advice! That's g... (show quote)


Backlit groups in bright sun need lots of fill flash. We used 1600 w/s into two heads for senior class panoramas.

Reply
Dec 31, 2017 21:21:22   #
CO
 
CWW wrote:
Greetings and Happy New Year! I have a strong interest in learning portrait/event photography. My question is: which lighting to purchase to get started? I understand the concept of rf controlled speed lights. What is the purpose of a strobe light? Are speed lights and strobes used simultaneously from the same rf transmitter? What equipment do you folks use to get the effect you are looking for? My camera is a Sony A77 11 with a 24-70 G Zeiss lens. Any direction is truly apprecited.


I just wanted to address your question about using speedlights and strobes simultaneously. I've done that from time to time using the PocketWizard Mini-TT1 and Flex-TT5 (support TTL metering) and the PocketWizard Plus III or Plus X (trigger only). The Mini-TT1 and Flex-TT5 transmit both the PocketWizard standard and controlTL signals simultaneously. I have a Mini-TT1 on my camera's hot shoe, my Nikon SB700 speedlight on a Flex-TT5, and a Plus III or Plus X connected to my Paul C. Buff DigiBee DB800 strobe. The Mini-TT1 on my camera triggered both the speedlight and strobe simultaneously. I was using the speedlight as a hair light and the strobe as a main light. The great thing is that I could adjust flash compensation on the camera and that would adjust the intensity of the hair light.

I think you would need to get these adapters to use the PocketWizards or other radios with your Sony camera and Sony speedlight.

PocketWizards that support TTL metering will not work in TTL mode with Sony cameras. Because of this you could use the PocketWizard Plus II, Plus III, Plus IV, or Plus X radios. There would be no TTL. The speedlight would need to be in manual mode.


(Download)


(Download)

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Dec 31, 2017 21:44:29   #
dkguill Loc: Elkhart, IN
 
SharpShooter wrote:
I see you've been getting lots of advice! That's great!
I think you're right, I did reverse my comparisons on my first reply!
Though I don't disagree with dk, I'd like to hear where he's ever needed 640ws? LoL
My lights are 500ws and in a studio, can't remember having them over 1/4 power. Yes, they will recycle faster but that is a LOT of power if you don't shoot large groups, like reunions or baseball teams or daylight groups.
200ws lights are adequate for most portrait or smaller groups like families of say 5.
Depending on how much you can spend, it's hard to know what you will need without a bit of experience first. It's no longer like the old Norman days when everybody ran heads on a power-supply. Lots of great choices today.
Though fairly expensive, do look closely at some of the integrated battery lights like the Godex that Goofy has mentioned.
I'm considering new lights and have looked at the Godex(vs very expensive Profoto) to solve a lot of issues with power and portability.
My recommendation for someone just starting would be a decent used set using convertible umbrellas and can be use reflective or shoot-through. Umbrellas are very cheap and a good way to learn what your modifier demands will become. There are so many kinds of softboxes and octas that it boggles the mind of a seasoned shooter.
Then there are the speedrings. If you change lights or modifiers, you might need all new speedrings to mount the lights.
Personally I would move into it cheaply and conservatively, until you have a good understanding of what you want to create, light-wise.
You haven't mentioned WHAT you want to do yet, or maybe I missed that.
Good luck with this complex subject!!!
Maybe lift some shots off the Internet and post them so we can see your goals.
SS
I see you've been getting lots of advice! That's g... (show quote)


To answer your question about where I might have needed 640WS, I have to explain that my choice of equipment is never to pick the least capable available. Rather I tend to select the best I can find in keeping with what I can afford. In building my business, I was fortunate to start with rather demanding commercial product assignments in a niche industry. I was able to acquire a used Speedotron lighting system that gave me a very capable power pack with four hi-performance heads. This equipment allowed me a great deal of flexibility in subject selection and I was able to accept a broad range of projects. The downside was that it was a bit cumbersome. While that system is still operational, I decided to downsize to a modern system that turned out to be the Alien Bees heads with Lithium portable battery pack and assorted accessories. I downsized to two 640WS and one 320WS units. The difference in cost for less capable strobes was not great and the ability to take on more demanding assignments made it an easy choice. If you knew you were only going to be photographing small items in small popup product tents, you could indeed get by with lower WS units. I felt that having more capability allowed me to consider bigger projects so I was free to make moderate WS units my work horses and fall back on my Speedotron units when I needed to blow a lot of light into the scene. Frankly, I have not had to use the Speedotron system for quite a while, but I have also not felt limited by my moderate selection of Alien Bees equipment. If you don't know where you are going, any road will eventually get you there. I prefer to have a reasonable buffer of resources with which to get the job done without having to compromise because of a shortfall. Can you get by for a lot of projects with less than 640 WS? Sure you can. I have gotten some nice results light painting a portrait with an LED pen light, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on that light source for everything. I have heard the argument that no one needs a 50 MP camera, but in my line of work I like having a 5Ds in my studio. My 5D Mk4 affords the latitude to do things that I may not have been able to do with an earlier model, but I prefer to have that capability. My 7D Mk2 rounds out my selection of camera bodies and I feel that I can address most projects that I might encounter. The question at hand was about how to approach selecting lighting equipment as an entry into studio lighting. My experience says that one should take a middle ground and leave room to expand. Underestimating your needs tends to be more costly in the long run. Thus my advice to consider 640 WS strobes. Your 500WS units are in the same ballpark and I assume you don't regret your choice either. My intent was to give my best considered opinion to address the question. To compare, I guess I probably average power usage at 1/4th to 3/4th levels. I don't feel overpowered at all.

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Dec 31, 2017 21:55:40   #
sloscheider Loc: Minnesota
 
CWW wrote:
Greetings and Happy New Year! I have a strong interest in learning portrait/event photography. My question is: which lighting to purchase to get started? I understand the concept of rf controlled speed lights. What is the purpose of a strobe light? Are speed lights and strobes used simultaneously from the same rf transmitter? What equipment do you folks use to get the effect you are looking for? My camera is a Sony A77 11 with a 24-70 G Zeiss lens. Any direction is truly apprecited.

Another avenue to explore is “continuous lighting”. I’m not saying it’s the thing to get but it is an option that is getting better all the time. They are not as bright as strobes, not even close, but they also work for you when/if you want to shoot video. Some subjects get startled by the bright flash of strobes, not a problem with continuous. There are great options out there now that LED systems have become so much brighter and cheaper.

I have both. There are things only a strobe/flash can do and, likewise, there are things you can only do with continuous lights.

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Dec 31, 2017 22:00:18   #
dkguill Loc: Elkhart, IN
 
sloscheider wrote:
Another avenue to explore is “continuous lighting”. I’m not saying it’s the thing to get but it is an option that is getting better all the time. They are not as bright as strobes, not even close, but they also work for you when/if you want to shoot video. Some subjects get startled by the bright flash of strobes, not a problem with continuous. There are great options out there now that LED systems have become so much brighter and cheaper.

I have both. There are things only a strobe/flash can do and, likewise, there are thins you can only do with continuous lights.
Another avenue to explore is “continuous lighting”... (show quote)


Good point! I rely on strobes 99% of the time, but I do have three LED continuous light units (2 - 500 light modules and 1 - 1000 light module) that can be used for video or stills and the light temp is near daylight. Not my first choice for studio lighting, but an interesting addition.

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Dec 31, 2017 23:08:59   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
CWW wrote:
Greetings and Happy New Year! I have a strong interest in learning portrait/event photography. My question is: which lighting to purchase to get started? I understand the concept of rf controlled speed lights. What is the purpose of a strobe light? Are speed lights and strobes used simultaneously from the same rf transmitter? What equipment do you folks use to get the effect you are looking for? My camera is a Sony A77 11 with a 24-70 G Zeiss lens. Any direction is truly apprecited.

Speed lights have a very low output (power), while portable flashes/strobes have a lot more power, giving you much more freedom to work!! Speedlights usually have about 60 - 70 Ws of power and that's it!

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Jan 1, 2018 00:25:14   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
sloscheider wrote:
Another avenue to explore is “continuous lighting”. I’m not saying it’s the thing to get but it is an option that is getting better all the time. They are not as bright as strobes, not even close, but they also work for you when/if you want to shoot video. Some subjects get startled by the bright flash of strobes, not a problem with continuous. There are great options out there now that LED systems have become so much brighter and cheaper.

I have both. There are things only a strobe/flash can do and, likewise, there are things you can only do with continuous lights.
Another avenue to explore is “continuous lighting”... (show quote)



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Jan 1, 2018 05:39:32   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
CWW wrote:
Great advice and direction. So, start with two radio controlled strobes the have rechargeable batteries and A/C capability, 640 ws. Two soft boxes with multiple diffusers. I believe you put me on the right track. Last question, Does a Pocket Wizard
work with most strobe light manufacturers? Very much appreciated, thanks.

You might look at the Paul C. Buff line of mono lights and radio triggers. Great light at a reasonable cost However if TRUE color reproduction is a factor use the better of the line or let the units fully recharge after every shot.
This is from my experience.

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Jan 1, 2018 06:45:59   #
CO
 
The only negative about continuous lighting is that they won't help to freeze motion and their output is not a high as strobes. I attended a model photo shoot recently where only continuous lighting was used. For some of the shots, I had to use shutter speeds as low as 1/25 second, f/5.6, ISO1250. I really didn't want to go higher than ISO1250 because there would be more digital noise.

The lighting here was a continuous LED ring flash. I used ISO1250, f/5.6, 1/30 second. Lots of motion blur.


(Download)

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Jan 1, 2018 07:25:28   #
nimbushopper Loc: Tampa, FL
 
Speed lights are generally the small units attached to the camera, but produce better results used off camera my using remote triggers. Strobes usually are monolights mounted on stands and used with light modifiers like umbrellas. Almost always used with radio triggers, studio strobes produce soft wraparound light ideal for portraiture.

Personally, I use Nikon speedlights for mobility, and Whitelightning monolights in my home studio. I've been using Nikon camears/lenses for almost 50 years.

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Jan 1, 2018 07:32:13   #
dkguill Loc: Elkhart, IN
 
CO wrote:
The only negative about continuous lighting is that they won't help to freeze motion and their output is not a high as strobes. I attended a model photo shoot recently where only continuous lighting was used. For some of the shots, I had to use shutter speeds around 1/40 second. Even with VR on, many of the shots were blurry.


Yes, I have to say that I have had similar experience with continuous lighting (CL) and I must admit finding CL of very limited practical use unless you have significant amounts of video projects. You can indeed find a way to take stills if you are shooting stationary objects. Or if you can accept high ISO settings. I agree that CL doesn't begin to compare with IQ attainable using good strobes. I find CL to be interesting for limited situations.

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