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Inspired by a Reply to Another Post
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Dec 28, 2017 21:21:56   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
rmalarz wrote:
A response to another post I submitted led me to this question. One of the folks who replied to the other post opined that the print is the final product and all that matters. I tend to agree.

So, let’s consider the posts within the gallery, or other sections that contain photographs, the final product. Why are so many insistent on listing the camera, lens, settings, etc.?

I can understand if it were a tutorial based solely on a particular camera, a particular setting, etc. However, those photographs are not. The photographs presented are for show and not lessons. So, why the insistence?
—Bob
A response to another post I submitted led me to t... (show quote)


I see those questions Bob and my first thought is: if the person buys the same camera and lens he/she will also take excellent photos. Of course we know that isn’t what happens in photography. It is the photographer who makes the photo.

Dennis

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Dec 28, 2017 21:31:33   #
rjaywallace Loc: Wisconsin
 
robertjerl wrote:
To inform people how the image was made and give them ideas to think about. The technique etc can be carried over to other gear with a bit of thinking. Plus there are lots of people who want to know those things. And yes that means they are a mini tutorial in photography. A huge % of members here joined to learn as well as share images. Camera type, lens, flash or no flash give information on gear needed or at least type/class of gear. SS, f-stop, ISO, HDR, focus stack, PP app and what was done. Those show some of the steps to get those results. Many beginners do not know about the changes these things can make in the result. example: picture of water fall - high SS = water drops frozen etc -- slow SS = that silky blur of the falling water.
It doesn't hurt me to put up that info, it doesn't hurt those who don't need it that it is there but others are interested and thinking/learning from it. Also many of the beginners have no idea how to access the exif data from the images, and some of them don't have it anymore anyway.
Maybe the print is the final product, but this site does not have any prints, only digital versions. Unless you are printing from the downloads of every image you look at?

Having the information there or not doesn't help or hurt you, so why are you so obsessed with it?

Oh, more power to you with your film gear, 4x5 etc. I got rid of all my 4x5 and medium format recently. As to film itself, I don't miss it at all, esp not the fumes from the chemicals since I have allergies and asthma. The one year (74-75 school year) I taught 5 periods of basic photography instead of history, geography etc I made short tours of the film and darkroom with long periods of breathing in the classroom to keep my lungs clear.

Having today's digital gear for those high school photo students would have been a complete game changer in teaching photography. Nearly unlimited experimentation and practice and fast results to show how things worked and what results you would get from each change. A much faster paced lesson flow and many more things covered and/or learned in the same time frame.
To inform people how the image was made and give t... (show quote)

I tend to agree with RobertJerl. I posted an image in the Photo Gallery a couple days ago. I included info re the camera, settings, an accessory I used and how I processed the photo. I certainly don’t consider myself to be a great photographic ‘magician’, but I know such information can sometimes prompt others to create photos using similar, _not identical_, techniques. Don’t feel like I’m giving away any secrets of the trade. Just a case of sharing open-handedly with my brothers and sisters. /Ralph

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Dec 28, 2017 21:42:26   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
If I see an outstanding photo - ON A PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM - SAY - Such as this forum - Why would I NOT wish to see the settings/camera used/Lens --- If all I want to see is "just" pretty pictures then I can always just purchase a magazine or a pretty picture book

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Dec 28, 2017 22:00:36   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
ken_stern wrote:
If I see an outstanding photo - ON A PHOTOGRAPHY FORUM - SAY - Such as this forum - Why would I NOT wish to see the settings/camera used/Lens --- If all I want to see is "just" pretty pictures then I can always just purchase a magazine or a pretty picture book


For the information to be useful you would have to know more than the camera settings. How bright is the light comes to mind. You might see a picture of a nice sharp subject and a beautiful blurred background and want to know what lens and aperture were used. But without knowing the distance from subject to background it would be no help.

I could give you the settings for this image. But I bet you still wouldn't realize that the sky is actually water with thousands of snow geese. If I had actually been pointing at the sky, at these setting it would be blown out.

I never post setting with the pictures, but if I see that somebody asked I provide them.

--



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Dec 28, 2017 22:11:25   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
Although I expect technical excellence to be a part of an aesthetically pleasing photograph, it is often the story behind the making of the image that intrigues me more. The trap in knowing the settings is that we then think that they are the primary integral components of a “successful” image.

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Dec 28, 2017 22:20:01   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
I stopped, but was deluged by requests for exposure settings. Users like to know what settings you used to help them with their own shoots.

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Dec 28, 2017 22:29:26   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
LRF, that might be true. However, the way I have my camera set and the exposure settings I use would create more issues than posting them would solve.

I remember reading Ansel Adams "The Making of 40 Photographs". I guess I could write a small composition regarding the making of any of my photographs. The issue is, it isn't the camera or lens combination. It isn't the f/stop / shutter speed / ISO combination either. It's the application of the knowledge those combinations will provide in the original capture. Coupled with processing techniques those initial settings result in a photograph I conceived when I first saw the scene photographed. There are so many steps in just taking the photograph that transcends the camera, lens, and exposure, that listing the equipment would provide no more guidance than reading a page of the B and H catalog.

I'm sure many of us have visited museums where photographs are exhibited. I dare say, camera/lens/exposure information is rarely displayed. Yet, we all come away enamored by what we've seen, at least most of the time. That was a part of the motivation for posting this question in the first place. The reply to another post led to thinking about that and then museum trips.
--Bob
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
Although I expect technical excellence to be a part of an aesthetically pleasing photograph, it is often the story behind the making of the image that intrigues me more. The trap in knowing the settings is that we then think that they are the primary integral components of a “successful” image.

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Dec 28, 2017 22:32:06   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I quit posting other than the photograph. I've not had one request for exif data. I've posted photographs originally made on film with exif data attached. No one questioned those. My feeling is it's unimportant. The print is the thing of importance.
--Bob
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
I stopped, but was deluged by requests for exposure settings. Users like to know what settings you used to help them with their own shoots.

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Dec 28, 2017 22:36:02   #
Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN
 
rmalarz wrote:
LRF, that might be true. However, the way I have my camera set and the exposure settings I use would create more issues than posting them would solve.

I remember reading Ansel Adams "The Making of 40 Photographs". I guess I could write a small composition regarding the making of any of my photographs. The issue is, it isn't the camera or lens combination. It isn't the f/stop / shutter speed / ISO combination either. It's the application of the knowledge those combinations will provide in the original capture. Coupled with processing techniques those initial settings result in a photograph I conceived when I first saw the scene photographed. There are so many steps in just taking the photograph that transcends the camera, lens, and exposure, that listing the equipment would provide no more guidance than reading a page of the B and H catalog.

I'm sure many of us have visited museums where photographs are exhibited. I dare say, camera/lens/exposure information is rarely displayed. Yet, we all come away enamored by what we've seen, at least most of the time. That was a part of the motivation for posting this question in the first place. The reply to another post led to thinking about that and then museum trips.
--Bob
LRF, that might be true. However, the way I have m... (show quote)


Exactly. Great photos aren't remembered for their technical information but their cultural importance and visual impact.

I never have bothered to write down such information. I don't really miss having that information either.

My mentor had us write down all of it during an assign in learning the Zone System though shooting several roles of 35mm and developing differently. It was the most grating and tedious assignment we were ever give.

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Dec 28, 2017 22:39:00   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
rmalarz wrote:
A response to another post I submitted led me to this question. One of the folks who replied to the other post opined that the print is the final product and all that matters. I tend to agree.

So, let’s consider the posts within the gallery, or other sections that contain photographs, the final product. Why are so many insistent on listing the camera, lens, settings, etc.?

I can understand if it were a tutorial based solely on a particular camera, a particular setting, etc. However, those photographs are not. The photographs presented are for show and not lessons. So, why the insistence?
—Bob
A response to another post I submitted led me to t... (show quote)


It’s a habit. A custom. A ritual left over from ancient 20th century camera club meetings where you just HAD to list camera, lens, film, ASA, shutter speed, and aperture on a sticker on the back of the frame or mounted print. It is INSANE, ARCHAIC, and USELESS to anyone other than the photographer!

The impression made by viewing a print (or image, in a digital gallery) certainly is all that matters. What is communicated? Felt? Understood? Inspired? Illustrated?...

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Dec 28, 2017 22:50:33   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
rmalarz wrote:
A response to another post I submitted led me to this question. One of the folks who replied to the other post opined that the print is the final product and all that matters. I tend to agree.

So, let’s consider the posts within the gallery, or other sections that contain photographs, the final product. Why are so many insistent on listing the camera, lens, settings, etc.?

I can understand if it were a tutorial based solely on a particular camera, a particular setting, etc. However, those photographs are not. The photographs presented are for show and not lessons. So, why the insistence?
—Bob
A response to another post I submitted led me to t... (show quote)


I remember one of Ansel Adams assistants told a story of listening in on Ansel giving a class. One of the students asked about a picture Ansel had taken as to aperture, shutter, and film. Ansel gave him an answer and went on with the class. After the class was over and the students gone, the assistant asked Ansel how he could remember all that information. Ansel said that he couldn't remember that data but gave the student a reasonable answer so he could continue on with the class.

Anyone can give the equipment and the settings out, but they will only apply to the picture taken with those settings. And even if the exposure isn't exactly remembered, the answer will be reasonable for the journey of getting there. I don't try to give out the equipment information unless I feel it is relevant to the conversation at hand. And if someone wants my exposure data, they are more than welcome to it since it only applies to the picture I took, not necessarily to the one they will take.

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Dec 28, 2017 23:02:19   #
Sean's Shots Loc: Des Moines , Iowa
 
well said

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Dec 28, 2017 23:03:53   #
ken_stern Loc: Yorba Linda, Ca
 
Bill_de wrote:
For the information to be useful you would have to know more than the camera settings. How bright is the light comes to mind. You might see a picture of a nice sharp subject and a beautiful blurred background and want to know what lens and aperture were used. But without knowing the distance from subject to background it would be no help.

I could give you the settings for this image. But I bet you still wouldn't realize that the sky is actually water with thousands of snow geese. If I had actually been pointing at the sky, at these setting it would be blown out.

I never post setting with the pictures, but if I see that somebody asked I provide them.

--
For the information to be useful you would have to... (show quote)


Did you think I did not already realize that ???? ------
My goodness it's only basic hobby curiosity --- I'm not looking for or do I expect EXIF to provide a cookbook receipe --- Just general settings, camera & lens type -- Back in the film days I also liked to know type of film used

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Dec 28, 2017 23:18:01   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I do keep somewhat specific notes while taking a photograph. They are used to determine the ideal developing time of the film. Since they are in notebooks, keeping them for future reference is little effort. However, the idea of what camera, lens, etc. is really useless without the subsequent exposure data (zone placement) and developing times. So, unlike yourself, I keep notes.
--Bob
Darkroom317 wrote:
Exactly. Great photos aren't remembered for their technical information but their cultural importance and visual impact.

I never have bothered to write down such information. I don't really miss having that information either.

My mentor had us write down all of it during an assign in learning the Zone System though shooting several roles of 35mm and developing differently. It was the most grating and tedious assignment we were ever give.

Reply
Dec 28, 2017 23:21:02   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
rmalarz wrote:
LRF, that might be true. However, the way I have my camera set and the exposure settings I use would create more issues than posting them would solve.

I remember reading Ansel Adams "The Making of 40 Photographs". I guess I could write a small composition regarding the making of any of my photographs. The issue is, it isn't the camera or lens combination. It isn't the f/stop / shutter speed / ISO combination either. It's the application of the knowledge those combinations will provide in the original capture. Coupled with processing techniques those initial settings result in a photograph I conceived when I first saw the scene photographed. There are so many steps in just taking the photograph that transcends the camera, lens, and exposure, that listing the equipment would provide no more guidance than reading a page of the B and H catalog.

I'm sure many of us have visited museums where photographs are exhibited. I dare say, camera/lens/exposure information is rarely displayed. Yet, we all come away enamored by what we've seen, at least most of the time. That was a part of the motivation for posting this question in the first place. The reply to another post led to thinking about that and then museum trips.
--Bob
LRF, that might be true. However, the way I have m... (show quote)


And most photographers will come away wondering just what and how those images were made so they can strive to duplicate or produce similar images.

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