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Loss of IQ Using Full Frame Lens on a Crop Sensor?
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Dec 12, 2017 08:21:13   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
After watching a couple of Tony Northrup's videos, I'd suggest most of them are hogwash. After seeing his reasoning for not needing a polarizing filter, or an ND filter, I gave up on watching anything he produces. In that video he showed how difficult it was to attach the filter to the lens, and then the issues with turning it to obtain the polarizing effect. What a joke.
--Bob
Gene51 wrote:
You've watched the Tony Northrup video on this topic, I suspect. It should be dismissed as hogwash. Full frame lenses will provide equal and often better corner to corner performance than APS-C lenses on an APS-C camera.

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Dec 12, 2017 08:23:52   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
inbigd wrote:
Does anyone know enough...


Since when has that been a requirement to offer an answer?

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Dec 12, 2017 08:26:01   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
joer wrote:
You should re-read the op's post.
Your post has nothing to do with the discussion of which lens is best on a cropped sensor camera. he tests you show are affected by the difference between sensors so they show body+lens performance, not just lens performance. The "technology advantage" favors the D800E - 36MP will beat 20MP in sharpness.

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Dec 12, 2017 08:27:13   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
You know, my experience has been so different to the majority of the "reviewers" I have checked in the Internet. I have many examples but I will give you only one.
My Olympus
Zuiko 17mm f2.8 has horrific reviews by the majority of the reviewers in the Internet. I bought the lens brand new from a gentleman that apparently read the reviews and thought he had a lemon. Today it is one of my most used M43 lenses when I need the wide aperture and even when I have not been in need of a wide aperture its performance has been to my entire satisfaction. When I have done my part it did its part and lets keep in mind no lens is perfect. My lens tends to show chromatic aberrations under certain conditions, easily controlled with software.
Be assured that there is no lack of quality when you shoot a full frame lens with a cropped sensor.

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Dec 12, 2017 09:19:18   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Yes, as I've pointed earlier top quality FF lenses will work better on FF cameras than on crop bodies, but they will also work at least as well, and usually better, on crop bodies than lenses designed specifically for that format. Additionally, there are relatively few top notch optics available in crop designed lenses, not to mention a very limited assortment of focal lengths and apertures and usually poorer build quality. At the end of the day, generally the best lenses for crop cameras for a wide variety of uses are still those designed for FF cameras.
Yes, as I've pointed earlier top quality FF lenses... (show quote)


Perhaps you are correct at least in some circumstance but its too bad that DXO does not test DX lenses on FX bodies so we could go beyond opinions.

To quote the world renowned Dr. Demming, quality assurance guru, "Where is your data?"

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Dec 12, 2017 09:33:45   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
inbigd wrote:
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there is a loss in image quality using a ff lenses on a cropped body, others say there is no loss of quality. Does anyone know enough about sensors and lenses, and how these work, to scientifically answer this question?

I've got an old eos-1ds and a couple of L lenses for it, 1 being a 70-200 f4 L. Was considering the SL2 as a small walk around / travel camera. I would like the option to use the L lens on it occasionally and get acceptable shots.

Thanks
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there... (show quote)


I have a DX D7200 and use Nikon 28-300 and Tamron 90mm SP Macro lenses - both FF lenses...yes great IQ. The benefits of the crop in this case is capturing the central part of the image, so there is less chance of edge distortion or vignetting (unless I do something stupid such as using a bad hood), plus the contrast is better (very slightly) towards the center of the optical axis. Now there are other considerations for overall IQ - ISO, lighting, lens quality (a bad FF lens vs a better FF lens). I got the FF lenses in anticipation of adding FF next year. As the MP counts go up in newer cameras for either APSC or FF, it becomes more critical to pair it with a better lens. I've noticed a slight difference using my DX lens from my original D3300 kit on the D7200 and at 1:1 magnification can see the difference is sharpness but overall still looks great at normal viewing. Of course FF sensors in general will provide more expansive DR slightly and better handling of noise at higher ISO (1600-3200+) for low light applications.

One other thing I noticed is also how you are viewing the pictures - great lens, great camera, but crappy monitor = so so IQ - but view it on a 4K monitor and WOW! What punch! Love it...just got a 4K laptop and 55" LED TV/monitor.

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Dec 12, 2017 10:03:53   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
inbigd wrote:
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there is a loss in image quality using a ff lenses on a cropped body, others say there is no loss of quality. Does anyone know enough about sensors and lenses, and how these work, to scientifically answer this question?

I've got an old eos-1ds and a couple of L lenses for it, 1 being a 70-200 f4 L. Was considering the SL2 as a small walk around / travel camera. I would like the option to use the L lens on it occasionally and get acceptable shots.

Thanks
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there... (show quote)


Jut think about this logically and forget anything you have read. A lens is going to project an image on the sensor - whatever sensor- in exactly the same way EVERY TIME. It will project the same image on a piece of paper. If the sensors are equal in quality, and size of their surface area is the ONLY difference between them, how could the image projected on them and recorded by the sensor differ in ANYTHING other than size? Answer = NO.

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Dec 12, 2017 10:26:11   #
DMGill Loc: Colorado
 
The answers that say no image loss are right on. I’ve been shooting both full and APS-C sensor Nikons for years and the full frame lenses work well with the smaller sensor cameras for the reasons stated by others. I have one lens designed for the APS-C sensor and that’s because it is lighter and my wife much prefers the lighter weight.

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Dec 12, 2017 10:32:02   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
jerryc41 wrote:
Since when has that been a requirement to offer an answer?


The other argument to the decision isn't lens IQ but the fact that you can use ALL of your FF lenses on your crop sensor cameras (assuming that they use the same mounts similar to the way Nikon does) but you can't use crop sensor lenses on FF cameras without loss of image area. So, in my case, I ONLY purchase Full Frame lenses because it allows me to use the same lenses on ALL of my cameras without regard to whether they are crop sensor or full frame. This means that I don't have to purchase a $1600 full frame 80-400mm lens and a $1600 80-400mm Crop sensor lens (assuming that they manufacturer made one. Yes Nikon has an 18-300mm DX zoom lens for $999 and a FF 28-300mm lens for about the same amount. Why would I purchase both? I get the FF and use it on both. I would get the FF can use it on both. Only difference is the low (wide angle) end of the 28 vs DX 18 which would equate to 44mm (FF on DX camera) and 37mm DX on DX. So my point is that I get the FF version and I can use it on either camera and save an additional $999

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Dec 12, 2017 10:33:22   #
RichieC Loc: Adirondacks
 
FF lens are superior build and design... and cost reflects this. The only thing you'd loose is the extra real estate that could be recorded. But no guessing involved, what you see in the viewfinder is all you''ll get.

The good news is, that once you get a full frame, you'll already have a lens for it.

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Dec 12, 2017 11:02:01   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
RichieC wrote:
FF lens are superior build and design... and cost reflects this. The only thing you'd loose is the extra real estate that could be recorded. But no guessing involved, what you see in the viewfinder is all you''ll get.

The good news is, that once you get a full frame, you'll already have a lens for it.


And since I have both FF and Crop.. I put my longer full frame lenses on my Crop Sensor (which essentially gives me an apparent 1.5 increase in reach and yes I know that its the same reach but just cropping the center part) and I put my wide angle to normal reach lenses on my Full Frame.... Note, I have a 10-24mm Tamron Wide zoom which is Crop only and it seems dumb considering it is only giving me an equivalent to a 15-36mm FF. And yes, I realize that I can put my Crop Sensor lenses on a full frame camera and use the camera in crop mode... but why buy "single purpose" lenses when you can get the full frame.

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Dec 12, 2017 11:17:10   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
DXO scores need to be taken with a grain of salt as they under done under optimal conditions on a bench. Real world shooting won't show much difference if any if the lenses are close in the DXO ratings to begin with.

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Dec 12, 2017 11:30:03   #
SusanFromVermont Loc: Southwest corner of Vermont
 
inbigd wrote:
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there is a loss in image quality using a ff lenses on a cropped body, others say there is no loss of quality. Does anyone know enough about sensors and lenses, and how these work, to scientifically answer this question?

I've got an old eos-1ds and a couple of L lenses for it, 1 being a 70-200 f4 L. Was considering the SL2 as a small walk around / travel camera. I would like the option to use the L lens on it occasionally and get acceptable shots.

Thanks
I've read conflicting info. online. Some say there... (show quote)

The full frame lens will always perform to the best of its capabilities. So it is CAPABLE of providing great IQ.

The crop-sensor camera has a smaller sensor so it uses the center [sweet spot] of the FF lens.

However, not all sensors are created equal. So while the lens performs the same every time, the degree of good IQ depends on the sensor. The crop-sensor and the FF sensor will each also perform to the best of its capabilities. So using the same lens on each camera, you will get good IQ, but how good with each camera depends on the sensor.

Just because there is a FF lens on it, the crop sensor cannot out-perform its capabilities. But that FF lens may produce better images than you are used to seeing with crop-sensor lenses.

In the same manner, if the FF lens is on a FF body, both will perform to the best of their capabilities. But the FF sensor cannot produce better images than the quality of the FF lens allows.

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Dec 12, 2017 11:31:07   #
Clapperboard
 
Screamin Scott Bravo!!! I get so irritated by references to DXO as gospel. More so when actual experience in real situations shows otherwise.

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Dec 12, 2017 11:31:08   #
Clapperboard
 
Screamin Scott Bravo!!! I get so irritated by references to DXO as gospel. More so when actual experience in real situations shows otherwise.

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