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Debating between D7500 and D500
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Nov 14, 2017 13:26:09   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
An absolutely great response, so I will go piece by piece.

First off, thank you, I enjoyed reading your post.

lamiaceae wrote:
The D500 is essentially a (DX / Cropped Factor / APS-C) Professional Nikon; the D7500 is a Advanced Hobbyist model as you may realize. If you wanted to save a few dollars you might look (quickly) for a still new D7200. For a general use Nikon a D7500 is probably your best choice. The D500 is more of a sports/wildlife camera and as I said, Professional, whence the lack of some convenience auto features.

I've considered the D7200, it's an excellent camera, but it is several years old and I tend to keep things for a long time or until they get in my way.

Quote:

No to be rude, but as you can see from my tag-line, I'm a Pentax user but I know Nikon's line as well. If you used to shoot film as you imply by just knowing what the light seemed like (and yes, I used to do that too, via taking the batteries our of a camera and yet not using a hand held meter, at least with Negative films. I would not attempt that with Slide or Transparency films), why have you lost the ability to set an f-stop and shutter speed?

An excellent question. The answer is "I didn't, but the D5200 is not a camera that makes it easy to set manually, with any semblance of urgency." I will also say that I am way out of practice and I do not take photographs anywhere near as frequently compared to the old days when my camera was with me all the time. Yes, I can take a LOT more pictures with a digital camera, I just don't do it anywhere near as frequently; life is busy.

I used to drive a stickshift, from the first new car I owned until about 12 years ago. That's like 30 some years with a stick. I rarely use the paddle shifters in my Outback and when I do, it's definitely not the same as using a stick and a clutch.

Quote:

The only really important other things are WB (Auto WB works great on my Pentax cameras), and the first thing you should set, ISO (was ASA many decades ago). 90% of my photographs are taken at ISO 200 and w/Auto WB. But on the other hand, I never touch Full Auto (Green), Program, or even Auto ISO (I don't really even it that), etc. I shoot most scenes in Av (A) mode, for the occasional Action/Motion in Tv (S), or Close-up or Macro in Full Manual (sometimes). Even though my newer lenses are AF I still mostly focus manually. I've been doing photography seriously since about 1977, and have used many types of cameras and many formats (used, not owned all): 35mm SLR, 35mm Range Finder, 6x7cm SLR, 6x6cm TLR, 4x5" view camera/field camera (own two), and 8x10" view camera. Point being, for many of the cameras I've used many had no built in light meter or automation. I learned and know how to use a hand held light meter and spot meter. Say Gossen Luna-Pro, Pentax Spotmeter, Sekonic, Minolta Spotmeter, etc. I actually sometime use my Minolta Spotmeter F with my digital cameras for precise "Zone System" like metering and exposures. And yes, of course I shoot Raw, so I'm not really concerned with Styles, I PP with Photoshop CS6 and ACR.

You said something about concentrating more on Composition. I agree with that fully, good for you. I get it, you do not be want to be distracted, but you also don't want to walk over a cliff.
br The only really important other things are WB ... (show quote)

I was not talking about being distracted. Again, it has to do with the difficulty of manual control in the D5200. I do take pictures in manual with that camera, especially when I am trying to get a proper picture (composition, exposure and so on.) I also discovered limitations in the D5200 when I got into digiscoping. This is where the D500 or the D7500 would work better for me.

Quote:

I am more aware of composition now than when I was young, yet making the few setting changes in a given location have be come automatic for me. And because of taking my time I work with my digital cameras slowly. A full day of shooting is less than 180 exposures, often as few as 30. So what is the rush of using the camera's auto features? Learn to have full control. I most cases I am pretty sure you don't need to fool around with WB and ISO every shoot. I kind of pre-set up in my mind once I get to a location or start thinking about a set up for a studio shot. Even though I usually shoot Av (A) I keep an eye on what shutter speed the camera is selecting. And I am sure the meter in your Nikon D5200 is fine for manual exposures, as would be a newer model. Camera settings should be viewable on the back screen as well as the top of your camera, not just in the viewfinder that many never use today (I always do, but I'm an old schooler, and the viewfinder uses less battery). Bottom line, get the D7500. A D5500 might even be enough for you. If you really want the Pro features of the Pro D500, fine, re-learn how to shoot "professionally", and let friends and relatives use you old D5200. It will not be worth much on trade-in anyway.

br I am more aware of composition now than when ... (show quote)

I was not going to get rid of the D5200. I would let others use it, but when travelling, I only bring one camera and I don't have duplicate lenses. My youngest will get the D5200.

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Nov 14, 2017 13:30:38   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
Bill_de wrote:
The D500 is not for everybody. Neither is the D7500. Unlike most people who ask the forum to choose a camera, you actually provided a good profile.

As a D500 owner who loves it, I recommend you get yourself a D7500.

Or go FF

--


Smart donkey.



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Nov 14, 2017 14:03:03   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
Pegasus wrote:
Oh, more responses. Price is not a big issue.

I see some people did not understand how I was finding the D5200 limiting to me. So we'll ignore those comments.

And I don't need a second card slot. I use a 128GB card and I offload the pictures very quickly to my laptop and the cloud. I am not a professional with a paycheck riding on the pictures. I do know how to deal with SD cards.


A 128gb SD card. That's a lot of photos, even for a single slot, and a lot of shots in RAW. I can't debate your opinion on that decision.

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Nov 14, 2017 14:36:27   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
mas24 wrote:
A 128gb SD card. That's a lot of photos, even for a single slot, and a lot of shots in RAW. I can't debate your opinion on that decision.


I remember when people were warning not to use 4gig and 8gig cards. As file sizes get bigger we will be using ever bigger cards. But they are much more reliable than the 1 and 4gig MicroDrives. :)

--

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Nov 14, 2017 14:50:06   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
Yeah, I remember when 1MB disk drives were the size of washing machines and they were not reliable. :-)

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Nov 14, 2017 14:58:56   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
mas24 wrote:
A 128gb SD card. That's a lot of photos, even for a single slot, and a lot of shots in RAW. I can't debate your opinion on that decision.

It is a lot, maybe, depending on what you are shooting. Since D850 raw files are around 50-60mb each. A 128gb card will hold something over 2200 of them, give or take. That means the next smallest size card, 64GB will only hold around 1100 of them. For landscape photographers that may be plenty, but for sports/wildlife photographers shooting in burst mode, those images add up VERY quickly. And if 4K video is also in the plan, a 64GB card may quickly seem small to some users.

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Nov 14, 2017 15:31:47   #
Motorbones Loc: Fair Oaks, CA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Best argument toward a D500 but then again you have the buffer that allows dozens of images in a single burst, fast focusing among other things.

One draw back that maybe a deal breaker for some: No on camera flash.


The flash issue was a deal breaker for me as I wanted the convenience of having a bult in flash even though I have an SB-700 that I use when I plan to use one. Sometimes the need is so apparent in advance. I for got to mention that I came from a D5200 when I got the D7500... Night and day starting with picture quality. The auto function on the D7500 works nicely though I am venturing more into the manual world. The D7500 has a good memory bank for burst mode, something I couldn't do so well with the D5200 (which is now my backup camera). I have 4 different lenses I use, but found the Tamron 18-400 to be an excellent match for the D7500. Below is an example.


(Download)

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Nov 14, 2017 16:35:44   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
Motorbones wrote:
The flash issue was a deal breaker for me as I wanted the convenience of having a bult in flash even though I have an SB-700 that I use when I plan to use one. Sometimes the need is so apparent in advance. I for got to mention that I came from a D5200 when I got the D7500... Night and day starting with picture quality. The auto function on the D7500 works nicely though I am venturing more into the manual world. The D7500 has a good memory bank for burst mode, something I couldn't do so well with the D5200 (which is now my backup camera). I have 4 different lenses I use, but found the Tamron 18-400 to be an excellent match for the D7500. Below is an example.
The flash issue was a deal breaker for me as I wan... (show quote)


Good point about the flash. I also have an SB-700 but having one on-board in a panic is not a bad thing. It can mean the difference between a bad picture and no picture.

Funny story about people who don't do cameras. This past summer at the Worlds competition in Ottawa, I lent my D5200 with a 18-140 DX lens to the wife of one of our shooters so she could take pictures while the team was shooting. I saw her taking pictures while we were on the line and that was fine. At the end of the day she came up to me and said that she thought the pictures looked blurry. I checked the pictures she took and sure enough, they were out of focus. I looked at the lens and she had turned off autofocus. Sigh. I re-enabled it and she took more pictures the next day. That evening, I discovered the batteries in my SB-700 had leaked and I did not have time to clean it up. The team was rushed on the podium since we medaled and I gave here the camera again, with only the onboard flash to take pictures of us getting the medals. Thankfully I set it to record in RAW and was able to get something out. We looked like zombies.

The best laid plans of mice and men...

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Nov 14, 2017 16:56:13   #
Jim Bob
 
Pegasus wrote:
If you want to recommend a FF, please don't.

I'm coming from a D5200. which has done very well for me over the last 4 years but is now getting in my way more often than not. Let me explain.

I've had an SLR of some kind since the early 70s, Nikon or Minolta. (Strange combo, don't ask.) My two favorite films were Kodachrome and Panatomic-F. I also used a lot of Tri-X when I needed film speed. I did a lot of B&W because I developed my own film and printed my own pictures. I would know the exposure needed for the film I used just by looking around and could set the camera accordingly very quickly and then refine the exposure in the viewfinder. All second nature, easy peasy. In time, and with work, family and changing interests, there came a series of P&S cameras to record the kids and the use of Kodacolor and photo stores for development and printing. The camera was always ready and available for pictures at a moment's notice and my wife could use it easily. Enter digital photography and at first it was a Coolpix then a D60 followed by a D5200. I acquired many lenses during that time.

I am much more into composition when possible. Examples of that is when I go walking somewhere with picture taking in mind. This is when I start fumbling with my D5200 trying to set the exposure to what I would like. The viewfinder is small so reading the shutter speed and aperture is an issue. Trying to change them is even more so. This camera is really oriented towards automatic exposure and providing set scenes is a good thing. Trying to exercise more control over the exposure is more difficult.

However, unlike most people here (or certainly the ones who state a preference,) I do make use of full auto and I like the scenes settings because it is brain dead and it works quite well the majority of the time. It also enables my wife and others to easily take decent pictures with my camera.

I was all ready to select a D500 as my next camera but I'm discovering that it does not seem to have a full auto setting and certainly it does not have the scenes setting, whereas the D7500 has all that as well as much better control over manual settings. Does that mean I could not have other people (who know nothing about photography) use the D500 or not even a have it for quick spur-of-the-moment pictures?

I am reading the huge owner's manual, but it's pretty dry when you don't have the camera in hand.
If you want to recommend a FF, please don't. br b... (show quote)

If you carefully read your post, the answer becomes obvious.

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Nov 14, 2017 17:03:38   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
Jim Bob wrote:
If you carefully read your post, the answer becomes obvious.


Thank you, Great Carnac. I'll get an Olympus.

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Nov 14, 2017 18:34:13   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
Pegasus wrote:
And I don't need a second card slot. .


You will when, not if, your single SD card fails in the middle of the day when you're away from the cloud. It is only a matter of time before it happens.

Reply
 
 
Nov 14, 2017 19:00:01   #
Jim Bob
 
Pegasus wrote:
Thank you, Great Carnac. I'll get an Olympus.


Thanks for the compliment. However, it is clear therefrom that you did not follow my advice as the caption to your original post did not mention Olympus. Try again and avoid looking for someone to hold your hand to cross the street.

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Nov 14, 2017 19:05:00   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
mwsilvers wrote:
It is a lot, maybe, depending on what you are shooting. Since D850 raw files are around 50-60mb each. A 128gb card will hold something over 2200 of them, give or take. That means the next smallest size card, 64GB will only hold around 1100 of them. For landscape photographers that may be plenty, but for sports/wildlife photographers shooting in burst mode, those images add up VERY quickly. And if 4K video is also in the plan, a 64GB card may quickly seem small to some users.


I buy mostly 32gb SD cards by Lexar or SanDisk. I have one new SanDisk 64gb SD card I bought for the price of a 32gb SD card. I haven't used it yet. I still have a 4gb Lexar SD card I bought around 2009. They were expensive by today's prices. Lexar memory cards aren't discontinued yet. Based on a buyout of the company. Article provided by JerryC41.

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Nov 14, 2017 19:32:04   #
MrGNY Loc: New York
 
Pegasus wrote:
If you want to recommend a FF, please don't.

I'm coming from a D5200. which has done very well for me over the last 4 years but is now getting in my way more often than not. Let me explain.

I've had an SLR of some kind since the early 70s, Nikon or Minolta. (Strange combo, don't ask.) My two favorite films were Kodachrome and Panatomic-F. I also used a lot of Tri-X when I needed film speed. I did a lot of B&W because I developed my own film and printed my own pictures. I would know the exposure needed for the film I used just by looking around and could set the camera accordingly very quickly and then refine the exposure in the viewfinder. All second nature, easy peasy. In time, and with work, family and changing interests, there came a series of P&S cameras to record the kids and the use of Kodacolor and photo stores for development and printing. The camera was always ready and available for pictures at a moment's notice and my wife could use it easily. Enter digital photography and at first it was a Coolpix then a D60 followed by a D5200. I acquired many lenses during that time.

I am much more into composition when possible. Examples of that is when I go walking somewhere with picture taking in mind. This is when I start fumbling with my D5200 trying to set the exposure to what I would like. The viewfinder is small so reading the shutter speed and aperture is an issue. Trying to change them is even more so. This camera is really oriented towards automatic exposure and providing set scenes is a good thing. Trying to exercise more control over the exposure is more difficult.

However, unlike most people here (or certainly the ones who state a preference,) I do make use of full auto and I like the scenes settings because it is brain dead and it works quite well the majority of the time. It also enables my wife and others to easily take decent pictures with my camera.

I was all ready to select a D500 as my next camera but I'm discovering that it does not seem to have a full auto setting and certainly it does not have the scenes setting, whereas the D7500 has all that as well as much better control over manual settings. Does that mean I could not have other people (who know nothing about photography) use the D500 or not even a have it for quick spur-of-the-moment pictures?

I am reading the huge owner's manual, but it's pretty dry when you don't have the camera in hand.
If you want to recommend a FF, please don't. br b... (show quote)


I went through this debate with myself and went with the D7500. It does everything I wanted and is lighter weight than the D500. The camera was a huge step up from the D3300 that I have. You get a lot of the features of the D500 but at a lower price tag.

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Nov 14, 2017 19:39:53   #
Pegasus Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
You will when, not if, your single SD card fails in the middle of the day when you're away from the cloud. It is only a matter of time before it happens.


Here's a trick for you; carry extra SD card. I have an extra one with the camera, it its own case. This is not rocket science.

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