Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

I think that sometimes, then I look over at Ed.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

It's not the age .... it's the mileage ;)

Tim Stapp Loc: Mid Mitten

Sometimes, I feel 20 years younger than I am. Other times, 20 years older. Thankfully, the times that I feel younger are more often than I feel older. In fact, on a recent trip (wife was in training, I was free to roam during the day) I felt like a 12 year old again. The only concerns I had were "What time is dinner and when do we eat?"

BermBuster Loc: Hi Desert S.Cal

Late comer here, but what a great topic!
I can't add much, Primary lenses-70/200-24/70-100macro with ring flash.All f/2.8. 5D MKII Camera. Except for ceremony always have at least one off camera flash,indoors and out (Also love catchlights hate raccoon eyes).With flash my camera shutter never goes above 160th, which creates problems outside with bright light, I never go above ISO 400, which creates problems indoors in low light. If nothing is moving fast I'll drag shutter as low as 1/20 to add atmosphere. Most single portraits f/2.8, couples f/4...matter of fact I rarely go above f/4, My lights aren't powerful enough outdoors, and my ISO is too low indoors. One thing I do in group shots/family-4 or more rows...I backup. like 15'@35mm sometimes more. I have to crop heavily in Pp, (lucky I have a FF) but no problem with DOF (approx 16').
I Don't use tripod a whole lot, but when I do, like group shots, I'll use 'Live View' and zoom in 10x to dial in my focus. I too use BBF,so I can quickly switch between manual and auto focus-and shooting in Manual, lets me quickly meter the light without messing with my focus.
Also shoot RAW-use color checker on portraits with a light meter (esp bride).
Oh, I try to used live view during ceremony too, my shutter (mirror slap) is soooo loud, it even annoys me!

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

It is a great topic and we should keep it going. An update on my two camera carrying dilemma, I was in the local camera store (there are still a few) and after consultation I bought the single Spider Pro camera holster. I like the locking mechanism (ease of use) and plan a hybrid combination of my black rapid sling on my right hip and the other camera locked to my hip. If there are occasions where I am doing yoga moves I can easily set the unused camera on a pew or chair and retrieve it once back up. I'll keep you posted ...

I would like to get thoughts from this group on post processing style, but maybe that is another thread.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Jay ....

Interestingly I've been going over the KelbyOne Light Room stuff. I'm pretty good at LR but it's always good to watch a few hours form a pro and glean a few tips.

I'm going to shoot much shallower, feeling pretty confident in doing so. This will allow me to hopefully keep my ISO in the 640 - 1250 range indoors during the reception. As I said I use multiple off-camera flash along with on-camera for fill. When you need to drag out shadows it's much more forgiving shot at 640 verses 1250 - 2500.

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Actually, what I am considering is experimenting with this "Bright and Airy" look that it seems wedding photographers selling their tutorials are using. To me, it looks washed out, but seems to be very popular. It involves shooting wide open with a bright background and then in post reducing some contrast and clarity, lowering blacks, opening shadows and increasing brightness with the tone curve. Then raising the left side of the tone curve adds a matte effect. Jerry, if you are in Kelbyone check out "Family Photography: The Art of Storytelling" she uses this technique. I created my own preset to experiment with. Used the only available model (my grandson) to try it out. No flash. Shot with ISO 2,800 at 2.8. Shutter 160th. I needed a relatively fast shutter because he was charging me.

(Download)

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Yes Jay that is the 'now' look ...

I'll watch the video, thanks

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I did watch her video .... good stuff on the editing but she wouldn't survive as a wedding photographer in most of our price points as you can't take that much time to edit a picture ... first LR and then PS ....

I'm coming to the understanding that the price one charges can be based on the amount of tinkering one will include in their packaging, it isn't always about being a better photographer. Not saying I'm worth as much as a high end wedding photographer but what I produce for $2500 isn't going to be 4X better if you hire a $10,000 photographer. Might be a bit better and of course the editing my be superior but that is what I'm saying .... the editing is time consuming and thus where many photographers make the big bucks.

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

I am on a quest to try and understand which editing style is more likely to trigger that "high price" acceptance with clients. Then figure out how to get through it quickly. Much more can be done in Lightroom than previous versions. I usually spend time fine tuning the first of a series of shots and then either create a preset or copy paste settings. The more important shots I often end up in Photoshop to remove something or better skin softening. I have actions for some of it and get through pretty quickly.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I'm pretty quick in LR but if anything needs special attention I give to BH and she handles it in PS. Did you notice the lens that gal used? A $5700 lens. Don't you just love it when those teaching use equipment and have a staff that none of us use ...

They should target the lessons for the average photog out there, not to say there isn't some good stuff to glean but they live in a different world than most of us ..

jaysnave Loc: Central Ohio

Yes, that lens at the beach looked like it belonged at a NFL game. I also thought it interesting that everything was natural light even at the beach with sun behind the subject.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

A prime 200mm f/2

Very nice but very few wedding photogs would have something like that. As I said, they should use similar equipment that the average professional photog uses. In our case FF, 16-35, 24-70,70-200, 100mm macro. That is the stable most wedding photographers have, a few use something else or have a few extra lenses but that covers the majority of us.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Throughout my long tenure in wedding photography, I have always worked in very multicultural cities and this is reflected in my clientele. There is an old saying- a bit hackneyed but true, “different strokes for different folks”! So...my “MO” or approach to the many different kinds of weddings that I cover can differ quite a bit. For me, there is no “one style fits all” scenario and frankly, I like it that way so I don't fall into a rut and begin doing the same thing all the time.

My theory is that the planning stage with the bride and groom is just as important as the time I spend actually shooting each wedding. It is crucial for me to find out EXACTLY whet each couple expects, what the want and don't want and how much they wish to participate in the photographic aspect of their wedding. Sometimes there are extremes- some couples want me to be a “fly on the wall” and prefer a strictly photo-journalistic approach. Others want me to be a “drill instructor” or a “director” and depend on me to be more proactive in the goings on. Hopefully, most of them agree with me as to a mixed approach- a happy medium! I always endeavor to dispel certain misconceptions and make certain everyone concerned is on the same page. Many folks don't really understand that elegant, romantic and aesthetically pleasing formals don't materialize all by themselves- they are not all grab shots or “candids” and their cooperation is required as to time and patience. As a result of this planning philosophy, I have not encountered a problematic wedding in decades- folks are on time, we don't engage in a “cat and mouse” kinda relationship and I have come to the conclusion that most of the wedding “horror stories” I hear about at association meetings, from some of my students or trainees and online are simply the result of little, no, or poor planning. Paving the way to a easier and stress free job is the main reason that I am still shooting weddings at 73 years old.

Like any other old geezer, I have some health issues but according to my doctor, I am strong as an ox. I can still move quickly and lug around heavy gear- I try to keep in shape. I figure I have 2 more years before I turn all the wedding work over to my younger staff and just continue with my portrait and commercial work. I always work with 2+ assistants and who enable me to do more elaborate multiple lighting logistics and the also do some second shooting. They will eventually take over the wedding end of my business.

I am a veteran of the film era and old habits die hard. I made the transition into digital many years ago but I still believe in “putting it on the negative”! OK- so we don't have negatives anymore but I like to make consistent even files that do not require radical correction so that work flow is relatively fast and easy. I pay attention to composition, exposure and white balance as much as possible. I never liked to “re-shoot” jobs in the darkroom nor to I want to re-shoot or resurrect sloppy files spending disproportionately protracted hours on the computer- that's bad economy.

So what's with this ethnic or cultural thing- y'all may ask. It has to do with approach, venue considerations, equipment choices and lots more. I sometimes work in conservative churches where there are many restrictions so out come the long and fast lenses and the boosted ISO settings. The other extreme is an ultra-orthodox Jewish weddings where the ceremonies border on chaos. Imagine this- we have the couple, both sets of parents, the witnesses and oftentimes multiple rabbis all under a relatively small canopy. Sometimes the ceremonies are outdoors at night. At the main ceremony (there are several per-ceremonies too) I am standing right under the canopy with the rest of the gang with a wide or super-wide focal length and a flash unit on the camera- my assistant is somewhere nearby with a kicker light on radio slave. Sometimes, there are little kids kinda running around- it's a joyous occasion and they are welcome. There are the vows, the ring exchange, reading or the marriage document, sipping of wine (2 times) and 7 blessing given by honored family members and rabbis. There is the breaking of a ceremonial glass and wild dancing ensue during the recessional! I could ignite FLASH POWDER in the midst of all of this and go totally unnoticed- I am expected to be there! And man- you gotta move fast! The festivities and prayers go well into the night. The couples do not see each other (for over a week) prior to the ceremony so we do separate formals and family group usually starting at around 2 in the afternoon and when all is said and done- we get home at 3 or 4 o'clock the next morning! After the ceremony we get a kinda small widow of opportunity to do the combined formals and family pictures- that's where the “drill instructor” thing kicks in.

Depth of field issues? I am a big fan selective focus- I select the focus depending on the story I am telling. If the background is part of the story, I like it to be sharp and well defined – if not or if the background is distracting or superfluous to the theme of the shot- it get blown away- I believe the new term is BOKEH!

On large ballrooms or venues, my crew will set up lights around the perimeter- out of the trafficked areas- sometimes elevated in balconies or unused stage areas. Depending on my position relative to the subjects on the dance floor (etc.) some of the lights will be mains, others are kickers and the fill light is on the camera. I can work at one f/stop and the lighting ratio is controlled by varying the output of the on-camera light- simple and easy! Out of doors- for posed shots I prefer to use reflectors rather than flash fill. For grab shots- the on-camera light, again controls the ratio.

For formal portraits- indoors, I use a Photogenic Powerligh equipped with a soft box- a flat silver reflector provides fill. For groups and candids I use Lumadyne flash gear- all manual. For lighting up ballrooms, I use my “commercial lights” from the studio- I have a few 1200 w/s mono-lights and a Speedotron 2400w/s system with 4 heads. Usually the entire venue is around f/11 for grab shots, head table, toasts and speeches, whatever! Everything is on radio trigger- I use Pocket Wizards.

I have dragged a virtual studio into a venue and ended up using window light for the bride's portraits.

Presently, I use Canon gear a couple of Mark II hanging on my neck and shoulder. One more on a tripod. I have 3 zooms and 5 primes.
The 35mm soft focus lens is one of my favorites.

Many of my clients don't necessarily understand photographic jargon and techno-babble. I don't say “multiple off-camera lighting” I just tell them I do lighting like “in the movies” and create romantic formals like fashion pictures in bridal magazines- they get it! Hey- if the are photo enthusiasts- we can talk shop with them! If they are into photo-journalism I just tell that that we are a 3-man (or woman) Paparazzi! Main thing is- I treat my couples like family and the usually appreciate that!

Thing is, I still love the work. My lovely wife (who runs the office) thinks I am INSANE for still shooting weddings. To discourage this bad habit she pointed out that one of theses days, I will come to my untimely demise right in the middle of a wedding and that will be lousy PR for the studio- a bad legacy for the young guys to live down. OK- but I will go down with a smile on my face and die a happy photographer. If I happen to die at a synagogue, they could knock off a quick funeral and have me in the ground by sundown- it's traditional! Please excuse my morbid sense of humor!

Kindest regards, Ed

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Very revealing Ed .... thanks

I want to point out a few things. In most cases the weddings you shoot are not similar to the typical B&G in California. Not very often is the ceremony 'cultural'. Cultural typically likes more traditional shots and there is time set aside for making the expected 'traditional' portraits. Most weddings in my part of the woods expect photo-journalism style but want artistic pictures without allowing enough time for such, they really expect some magazine covers to come for candid machine gun style photography. This is probably where I could improve making sure a meeting of the minds happens long before the wedding/reception to find what they expect and for me to educate them on how that needs to be facilitated to get the best photos possible that they expect. I can ask clients many times for a time line and usually I get one a few days prior to the wedding but then everything is set in stone and though I said several times what time allotment is required they never allow enough time to accomplish the task without cutting corners.

I will say you are the exception, at least for my neck of the woods. I rarely ever see a wedding photographer with two assistants. Usually one if any, many simply are on their own. Your elaborate lighting setup is nice but not typically possible for a photographer out here. I'm the exception using 3 - 5 speed lights but even my 600's have limitations and would not recycle quick enough for shooting at f/11. It's a constant battle to find that happy medium in the triangle. If I push f/8 I've got to be firing at 2500 - 3200 and slower than preferred shutter speed, watching my exposure in my viewfinder to make sure I stay around 2 stops under ambient so the flash can help with the freeze. If I stay at f/5.6 I can shoot at 2500 at 1/125 and not worry about blur. Part of me wants to purchase a few more speed lights so I can use two together for main and kickers which would allow a faster re-cycle time. Would love to hear your feed back on my situation and how you would tackle it if you only had one assistant as I shoot with.

I'm going to take your advise and insist on a meeting face to face and drive home the 'requirements' for their desired style. Guess I'll raise my price a bit to facilitate the meeting. Most of my weddings a destination couples. I would say 75% don't live in the area of the wedding, in fact they normally live hundreds if not thousands of miles away but usually there are a few pre-visits to secure vendors and to pick things out so I can insist upon a meeting. Tired of surprises .... and expectations that are hard to accomplish with the time allotment that they wish to schedule.

In closing I would love to ideally shoot receptions in the 1/90 - 1/180, f/8, ISO-640 - 1250 range .... feedback please.