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Major upgrade in camera resolution ahead due to 8K standard.
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Nov 8, 2017 17:17:51   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
JPL wrote:
There is a lot of discussion here about resolution. People think there is no need for more resolution in camera sensors and even if resolution is increased the lenses will be a limiting factor.

But we have only had a few years now with 4K resolution and TV producers are already starting to make 8K television. And the plan for the Olympic games in Japan in just over 2 years from now is to record and broadcast in 8K.

For those who do not know 8K is about 33 megapixels. So I am guessing that all serious camera manufacturers will offer cameras with 8K and 33 megapixel sensors 2-3 years from now. That means not only in full frame cameras, but also Aps-c, m4/3 and 1" cameras and top of the line cameraphones.

What do you think about this?
There is a lot of discussion here about resolution... (show quote)


I'm sure this is true. I'm sure we'll be seeing smartphones that can take 8K video in the future. It doesn't matter if it's necessary for anyone. That's just how things evolve. I'll bet 10 years from now, televisions will be 8K or higher and backward compatible with earlier formats. You'll buy one because that's what they're selling. Will there be widespread 8K broadcast/cable/satellite TV by then. Who knows? I'm not going to lose 1 second of sleep over it. If I see something that I think will benefit me in some way now, I'll consider buying it. If not, I won't. Having an 8K TV without having anything to watch in the format wouldn't interest me,and I think that those who rush out and buy the first ones available are going to waste a lot of money for nothing.

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Nov 8, 2017 17:38:30   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
therwol wrote:
I'm sure this is true. I'm sure we'll be seeing smartphones that can take 8K video in the future. It doesn't matter if it's necessary for anyone. That's just how things evolve. I'll bet 10 years from now, televisions will be 8K or higher and backward compatible with earlier formats. You'll buy one because that's what they're selling. Will there be widespread 8K broadcast/cable/satellite TV by then. Who knows? I'm not going to lose 1 second of sleep over it. If I see something that I think will benefit me in some way now, I'll consider buying it. If not, I won't. Having an 8K TV without having anything to watch in the format wouldn't interest me,and I think that those who rush out and buy the first ones available are going to waste a lot of money for nothing.
I'm sure this is true. I'm sure we'll be seeing s... (show quote)


The question is always who is going to flinch first. With nobody buying the TVs who will produce content? Without content, who will buy the TVs. There are usually enough folks on both sides of this to get any good innovations off the ground.

--

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Nov 8, 2017 19:24:36   #
crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
 
bwana wrote:
Either the gamers or the porn industry...

bwa


VR will destroy those minds and personal relationships before they get to the holograms...combine with legalized drugs, gaming and general moral decay and you can put a fork in our society...

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Nov 8, 2017 20:54:57   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
gessman wrote:
I'm in! I just got a 4k monitor and it makes my recordings look a lot better. I've been shooting 4k with my Sony a6500, a Samsung Gear 360, and some 4k GoPro clones integrating it all together and I love it. Can't wait for 8k. I want it right now. Pluckin' those 33 megapixel stills from 8k video at 120 fps video will be so fantastic... Anybody'll be able to shoot "stop-action" on critters in such a manner that the human eye has never seen before and make a billboard out of it, if we choose. Oh yow!!! I'm ready - bring it on, but hurry!
I'm in! I just got a 4k monitor and it makes my r... (show quote)


"Pluckin' those 33 megapixel stills from 8k video at 120 fps video will be so fantastic... "

Yup!

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Nov 8, 2017 21:12:53   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
JPL wrote:
There is a lot of discussion here about resolution. People think there is no need for more resolution in camera sensors and even if resolution is increased the lenses will be a limiting factor.

But we have only had a few years now with 4K resolution and TV producers are already starting to make 8K television. And the plan for the Olympic games in Japan in just over 2 years from now is to record and broadcast in 8K.

For those who do not know 8K is about 33 megapixels. So I am guessing that all serious camera manufacturers will offer cameras with 8K and 33 megapixel sensors 2-3 years from now. A relatively short tim e ago 4K had just cojme out, and the qualityThat means not only in full frame cameras, but also Aps-c, m4/3 and 1" cameras and top of the line cameraphones.

What do you think about this?
There is a lot of discussion here about resolution... (show quote)


A question: How many of us are producing television programs for the
networks or major cable channels? If you're not doing this, 8K video
is completely unnecessary; just one more way the manufacturers
create a need where none exists. I'm sure the GAS people will be
breathlessly waiting for the Big Brown Truck to arrive. Not that long ago,
4K video came out, and top Hollywood producers and directors lauded
the quality as "revolutionary." Did I miss something? Has 4K suddenly
gotten worse? I think not. So as we say in Brooklyn, "FUGGEDABOUTIT !!!"
>Alan

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Nov 8, 2017 22:29:18   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
aellman wrote:
A question: How many of us are producing television programs for the
networks or major cable channels? If you're not doing this, 8K video
is completely unnecessary; just one more way the manufacturers
create a need where none exists. I'm sure the GAS people will be
breathlessly waiting for the Big Brown Truck to arrive. Not that long ago,
4K video came out, and top Hollywood producers and directors lauded
the quality as "revolutionary." Did I miss something? Has 4K suddenly
gotten worse? I think not. So as we say in Brooklyn, "FUGGEDABOUTIT !!!"
>Alan
A question: How many of us are producing televisio... (show quote)


I would welcome 8K in movie theaters. 4K is okay. There is still something lacking when compared with film. (I'd still rather watch 4K over film with the jumpy projectors and damaged prints.) As far as at home, I agree. Who needs it? If and when it becomes a standard, just like 1080p, we'll be using it anyway, but I don't feel any compelling need to jump in any time soon. Someone else can waste their money.

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Nov 8, 2017 23:02:02   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
therwol wrote:
I would welcome 8K in movie theaters. 4K is okay. There is still something lacking when compared with film. (I'd still rather watch 4K over film with the jumpy projectors and damaged prints.) As far as at home, I agree. Who needs it? If and when it becomes a standard, just like 1080p, we'll be using it anyway, but I don't feel any compelling need to jump in any time soon. Someone else can waste their money.



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Nov 8, 2017 23:14:56   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
bsprague wrote:
Well said! Except that I might be using a full frame Sony without a flapping, noisy mirror!


Yeah, that’s a reasonable alternative!

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Nov 8, 2017 23:28:58   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
kenArchi wrote:
I watch TV, not pixels.

I use to make sharp
4ft photos. Why do they say you can't do that with digital?


Who says that?

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Nov 9, 2017 00:30:53   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
kenArchi wrote:
I watch TV, not pixels.

I use to make sharp
4ft photos. Why do they say you can't do that with digital?


Many have used the example that there are "sharp" billboards made with iPhones. Viewing distance is the key. What kind of photos are you talking about, photos to hang on your wall? Which camera did you use. Just curious. I've never seen anyone make the statement that you can't make a sharp 4 foot photo with a digital camera.

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Nov 9, 2017 01:13:30   #
sergiohm
 
I saw a 8K TV relay of the Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (filmed by NHK). The image is spectacular but the TVs have to be huge (the one I saw was 300 inches) plus there were 22.2 audio channels !!! The standard is not even in the radar for the US. Not sure how photo would benefit from the 8K standard.
4K is ok but the difference to 1080p is really in HDR which is really a candy to the eye!

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Nov 9, 2017 03:15:19   #
Rdhalste
 
What do I think about going to 8K? As a personal opinion, I think we are into a bragging rights only area. We now have 4K which doesn't even cause most cameras to work up a sweat. 4K looks like a photo on a 60" set. (I have two 40" TVs). I'm currently sitting about 18" from a 27" computer monitor with 1920 X 1080 (1080p) resolution. That's approximately 2,073,600 pixels. A 24 Megapixel sensor is over 11 time that. What is the number of pixels in an 8K? 4K is 2160p. 8K is roughly 15360 X 4320, or over 66 megapixels. If I did the math correctly. Many, if not most receivers have to upscale to get 4K. Where will the bandwidth come from to handle these huge signals without a lot of compression? Off the Air (OTA), satellites and cable do not have the bandwidth to handle these signals without modifications to both the hardware and regulations. Yes that compression is available, bur is there a lossless compression? The saving grace is with digital displays, they only need the information to change the pixels that change, rather than redraw the complete frame although it can cause artifacts.

Why go to 8K? What will be gained? Except for very large screens, no one will see a difference! Only where a lot of people are watching it MIGHT make a difference, but who sits close to a 100" ot larger TV?
There is also a buffer problem handling large data throughput. Shoot a number of rapid fire shots with a 24 to 30 plus megapixel sensor. You quickly run into a full buffer and have to wait.
The D810 will shoot 4D, but at the full resolution (which is more than 4D) it still is limited by the buffer. The D800 will shoot 1080p. At 1080p that is many hours of recording on a tiny 64 GB memory card. With an adapter you can up that to 128GB. Better carry lots of batteries.

Cameras with full frame sensors are heavy! It's likely an 8K sensor can be made to fit the 810 size cameras, but what is the diffraction limit for lenses used with full size sensors? My D800 can use the same lenses that my D4S used. I still remember hauling a TV "mini cam" around.

To me, going to 8K makes about as much sense as a 24 MP sensor behind a 1/8th inch lens on a cell phone or monitor viewing angles beyond useful.
I have no need for 4K let alone 8K and my D800 gives me more resolution than I normally need.

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Nov 9, 2017 04:50:07   #
crazydaddio Loc: Toronto Ontario Canada
 
whitewolfowner wrote:
I think manufacturers will keep making and improving products as long as the "I got to have the latest and greatest at all times and I want it now" crowd keeps buying whatever they make. Instead of keep adding mega pixels (imagine the speed computers and the storage capacities we will need shortly if this continues. Instead of keep adding megapixels, why does not just one manufacturer out there just work on improving the sensors we have now. I'd like to see a 20-25mp camera that can produce a photo taken at 100,0000 that will look like it was taken at 100 ISO. Now that's a camera that would impress me. 50,000mp 35mm cameras that can't go over 1600 ISO in my book is a waste to a versatile photographer.
I think manufacturers will keep making and improvi... (show quote)



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Nov 9, 2017 11:38:56   #
b roll wanabee
 
I think it's clear anyone who shoots video would want a 4k or 8k or 16k camera. When you down-res your video to 1080 or smaller it will have advantages over something shot in 1080.
Plus pulling stills from your video will be awsome.

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Nov 9, 2017 12:00:19   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
b roll wanabee wrote:
I think it's clear anyone who shoots video would want a 4k or 8k or 16k camera. When you down-res your video to 1080 or smaller it will have advantages over something shot in 1080.
Plus pulling stills from your video will be awsome.




If you record in 4K and sub-sample to 1080P, you improve sharpness.

If you record in 4K and edit to 1080P, you can crop down to 1080, and you can take advantage of software image stabilization if you framed loosely enough.

Those same advantages are magnified at higher capture resolutions...

The higher the resolution of a video capture, the bigger the still images you can pull from it.

Onward and upward... Bring it!

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