Help with a venue
Oct 9, 2017 21:01:46 #
PAR4DCR wrote:
Jay & bkyser, you have given me more ideas to ... (show quote)
Sounds like a good plan. You brought something up that is of utmost importance... what the bride wants. What the bride wants is the only thing that matters. You may find that there are some shots from the previous event that she wished she had and others that were well covered and not really important to her.
Oct 10, 2017 20:00:25 #
From what I understand from the bride's dad Jay it was a very small wedding and just some relatives shot photos, no planning and no pro employed. Kinda like when you buy 20 of those instant cameras and put out on a table for the guests to take some shots.
Don
Don
Oct 11, 2017 11:40:20 #
Hey, Don!
As any experienced wedding photographer will attest to, you gotta be prepared for just about ANYTHING and that applies to problematic venues. It is not always possible to check out every venue as in the case of destination weddings, out of town jobs or just not having the time to do advance reconnaissance of every place you may end up working in. You never know what unfamiliar situations you may walk into. Some smaller reception halls are decorated with wall-to-wall mirrors to create the illusion of more space. There are French doors, highly polished wood paneled walls, glossy painted surfaces and vaulted ceilings- I remember one room that was entirely painted GLOSSY BLACK- so I forgot about any kind of indirect lighting and it was “reflection hell”! The following methodology solved that and many other problems.
The first thing I advise you to do is quickly STUDY the theory of ANGLE OF INCIDENCE. Aside from many other situations and usages, understanding of this lighting principle it is the key to dealing with reflective environments and managing all kinds of bounce or indirect lighting techniques.
Simply stated, the geometry is: The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. I know this is a heck of a time for a physics lesson but in practice, the technique is simple. If you remain at an oblique angle to any reflective surface, even a mirror, you will not see your own reflection nor will you get flash back form you on-camera speedlight. The basic trick is to keep your on-camera light and you second off-camera light at an angle to any reflective surface where it is OFF the angle of reflection. Don't shoot directly into a highly reflective surface or background. Make certain that your second light is not in a position where it will cause flash-back. Be especially observant- if you see yourself or your off camera light in a mirror or glass door- it's gonna be in the picture. Sometimes I just hit the open-flash (test) button to verify the position of my second light before making a bunch of shots form a certain position. In available light situations, reflective surfaces will not be as problematic as when you are using flash.
With a very high ceiling, bounce or partial bounce techniques are not usually practical so you need to have your direct flash techniques down pat. You may want to consider light modifiers to soften the effects of you speed-lights. If you use TTL exposure automation, make certain that you light readings are center weighted- in large darker halls, “subject failure” can set in. That is where the camera samples its light reading from the dark background and thereby overexposes the subject.
I am preparing a diagram to illustrate the angle of incidence theory. Once you understand it, you won't need other lighting diagrams to manage reflections. I will post it soon under “Angle of Incidence Diagram” Basically, when the camera and flash are at point “A” you will not get flash back unless your second light exceeds point “C” or is at point “B”. If you second light is used to open up the background, it will not yield distracting reflections if it is kept on your side of point “C” . If there are no reflective surfaces in the background, a second light at Point “B” or “C” can be used to create a nice off -camera rim light or back light. In a large room, when you are shooting on the dance floor (etc.) you may pick up a distant or small flashback that can be easily cloned out during editing.
If you are not experienced with multiple lighting techniques, the best approach is to keep your lightning as simple as possible and concentrate on getting the important shots- the highlights of the ceremony and reception, being at the right place at the right time and capturing good expressions. Fumbling with equipment in unfamiliar circumstances will result in the loss of important “must-have” shots.
I am not gonna read you the “riot act” and attempt to dissuade you form covering weddings without previous experience although I should! It's too late for that and you are the hired guy so you gotta rise to the occasion. Take lots and lots of shots! Bring a spare camera and speedlight and pack extra batteries and memory cards. Don't “chimp” your head off but do verify you exposures periodically.
Consider Murphy's Law as Gospel!
Check out the diagram, visit the venue for a pre-test (lighting check) if you can and may the power of the Universe be with you! GOOD LUCK!
Sincerely, Ed
As any experienced wedding photographer will attest to, you gotta be prepared for just about ANYTHING and that applies to problematic venues. It is not always possible to check out every venue as in the case of destination weddings, out of town jobs or just not having the time to do advance reconnaissance of every place you may end up working in. You never know what unfamiliar situations you may walk into. Some smaller reception halls are decorated with wall-to-wall mirrors to create the illusion of more space. There are French doors, highly polished wood paneled walls, glossy painted surfaces and vaulted ceilings- I remember one room that was entirely painted GLOSSY BLACK- so I forgot about any kind of indirect lighting and it was “reflection hell”! The following methodology solved that and many other problems.
The first thing I advise you to do is quickly STUDY the theory of ANGLE OF INCIDENCE. Aside from many other situations and usages, understanding of this lighting principle it is the key to dealing with reflective environments and managing all kinds of bounce or indirect lighting techniques.
Simply stated, the geometry is: The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection. I know this is a heck of a time for a physics lesson but in practice, the technique is simple. If you remain at an oblique angle to any reflective surface, even a mirror, you will not see your own reflection nor will you get flash back form you on-camera speedlight. The basic trick is to keep your on-camera light and you second off-camera light at an angle to any reflective surface where it is OFF the angle of reflection. Don't shoot directly into a highly reflective surface or background. Make certain that your second light is not in a position where it will cause flash-back. Be especially observant- if you see yourself or your off camera light in a mirror or glass door- it's gonna be in the picture. Sometimes I just hit the open-flash (test) button to verify the position of my second light before making a bunch of shots form a certain position. In available light situations, reflective surfaces will not be as problematic as when you are using flash.
With a very high ceiling, bounce or partial bounce techniques are not usually practical so you need to have your direct flash techniques down pat. You may want to consider light modifiers to soften the effects of you speed-lights. If you use TTL exposure automation, make certain that you light readings are center weighted- in large darker halls, “subject failure” can set in. That is where the camera samples its light reading from the dark background and thereby overexposes the subject.
I am preparing a diagram to illustrate the angle of incidence theory. Once you understand it, you won't need other lighting diagrams to manage reflections. I will post it soon under “Angle of Incidence Diagram” Basically, when the camera and flash are at point “A” you will not get flash back unless your second light exceeds point “C” or is at point “B”. If you second light is used to open up the background, it will not yield distracting reflections if it is kept on your side of point “C” . If there are no reflective surfaces in the background, a second light at Point “B” or “C” can be used to create a nice off -camera rim light or back light. In a large room, when you are shooting on the dance floor (etc.) you may pick up a distant or small flashback that can be easily cloned out during editing.
If you are not experienced with multiple lighting techniques, the best approach is to keep your lightning as simple as possible and concentrate on getting the important shots- the highlights of the ceremony and reception, being at the right place at the right time and capturing good expressions. Fumbling with equipment in unfamiliar circumstances will result in the loss of important “must-have” shots.
I am not gonna read you the “riot act” and attempt to dissuade you form covering weddings without previous experience although I should! It's too late for that and you are the hired guy so you gotta rise to the occasion. Take lots and lots of shots! Bring a spare camera and speedlight and pack extra batteries and memory cards. Don't “chimp” your head off but do verify you exposures periodically.
Consider Murphy's Law as Gospel!
Check out the diagram, visit the venue for a pre-test (lighting check) if you can and may the power of the Universe be with you! GOOD LUCK!
Sincerely, Ed
Oct 11, 2017 11:43:45 #
Oct 11, 2017 20:04:16 #
Thank you Ed for a very detailed explanation. Planning on visiting the venue ahead of the event in order to plan my attack. I will have two bodies, a D7100 and a D7200 along with a couple of zooms and a couple of primes and two SB910 speed lights. The D7100 and D7200 allow for off camera shots if I can find a place to secure them. There will be a DJ and thought about setting up one of the SB910's somewhere in the DJ area off camera that will allow me to cover some of the dance floor and have the other SB910 mounted on the other body. Again, will know more after my visit and find out more about how the room will be set up.
If you think of anything more that will be of value please let me know.
Thanks,
Don
If you think of anything more that will be of value please let me know.
Thanks,
Don
Oct 12, 2017 09:41:55 #
I actually forgot to mention this. My daughter has a "barn reception hall" I use the silver lined umbrellas up REALLY high. I think my stand is 12 or 15', with sandbags out the wazoo sitting in a corner, with the umbrella angled toward the dance floor. That is how my OCF that I'm using to simulate "bounced off the ceiling" flash. The main thing is to make sure that the stand is behind a table, or in a corner where you can move chairs in front of it, to make absolutely sure nobody is going to trip over it.
I use white tape stripes on the legs to make them as visible as possible. The contrast of the stripes is better than a solid white.... I also use yellow and black sandbags on any stand that will be even remotely near people, even if behind a table, just to make them as visible as possible....of course, anything can happen, and that's why we carry liability insurance. I can tell you for sure, it's 100% more effective than trying to bounce off a 40' wooden ceiling.
I use white tape stripes on the legs to make them as visible as possible. The contrast of the stripes is better than a solid white.... I also use yellow and black sandbags on any stand that will be even remotely near people, even if behind a table, just to make them as visible as possible....of course, anything can happen, and that's why we carry liability insurance. I can tell you for sure, it's 100% more effective than trying to bounce off a 40' wooden ceiling.
Oct 12, 2017 18:57:02 #
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