Help with a venue
Oct 6, 2017 20:09:50 #
Please Goggle "Audubon Tea Room" in New Orleans, La. and observe the venue before giving your expert advice.
I will be shooting a reception at this location in November starting a 6:00PM in the evening. The
wedding has already taken place and this is a reception for friends that could not make the out of state wedding.
Glass doors all around and a 45' high ceiling.
Equipment Nikon D7100 and D7200 bodies, 2- SB910 speed lights, 18-200mm and 16-80mm lenses and an
off camera "L" flash bracket.
How do you suggest I attack this shoot for the best results? Like to use bounce flash for effect but with 45'
high ceilings this is not going to work.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Don
I will be shooting a reception at this location in November starting a 6:00PM in the evening. The
wedding has already taken place and this is a reception for friends that could not make the out of state wedding.
Glass doors all around and a 45' high ceiling.
Equipment Nikon D7100 and D7200 bodies, 2- SB910 speed lights, 18-200mm and 16-80mm lenses and an
off camera "L" flash bracket.
How do you suggest I attack this shoot for the best results? Like to use bounce flash for effect but with 45'
high ceilings this is not going to work.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Don
Oct 6, 2017 22:06:50 #
Don, I am not the best expert here but I love problem solving and I will get it started. I have googled the venue and it is beautiful especially if it took place earlier in the day as there are nice skylights helping you with lighting. At 6:00pm there will be sort of good lighting and get progressively worse. There are many hanging lights with yellow shades and a lot will depend on what type of illumination they choose to use as the night goes on. The floor is dark the tables are white as are many of the walls. Just an observation.
Basically, I don't have a foolproof plan for you because it seems that it is one of those places that the light will change throughout the night and you need to be ready for anything. My "first draft" of a plan would be such:
I would have ready a good on camera flash and modifier. You will at least get the B&G visiting people at tables and whichever events they choose to do at this after the wedding reception. In looking at some of the pics on-line other photographers definitely struggled with lighting. You can do better than that with an on camera flash and modifier. If it was me I would get as much ambient light as possible and have the ISO cranked up to 1600 to 2000 but still add flash.
Now there may be an opportunity to get even better illumination on the dance floor if you fire two strobes positioned from the back of the dance floor. Another possibility to light other parts of the room may come with firing strobes into those white panel walls. Firing into them would create a large softbox effect. You would have to watch the location and angle.
Just some initial observations and thoughts.
Basically, I don't have a foolproof plan for you because it seems that it is one of those places that the light will change throughout the night and you need to be ready for anything. My "first draft" of a plan would be such:
I would have ready a good on camera flash and modifier. You will at least get the B&G visiting people at tables and whichever events they choose to do at this after the wedding reception. In looking at some of the pics on-line other photographers definitely struggled with lighting. You can do better than that with an on camera flash and modifier. If it was me I would get as much ambient light as possible and have the ISO cranked up to 1600 to 2000 but still add flash.
Now there may be an opportunity to get even better illumination on the dance floor if you fire two strobes positioned from the back of the dance floor. Another possibility to light other parts of the room may come with firing strobes into those white panel walls. Firing into them would create a large softbox effect. You would have to watch the location and angle.
Just some initial observations and thoughts.
Oct 7, 2017 15:04:27 #
Thanks for your quick reply Jay. Have seen set ups with strobes and extra lighting from soft boxes BUT all I will have access to is two Nikon SB910 speed lights. I was thinking of one on the "L" bracket and maybe one set up off camera around the DJ area.
Your thoughts?
Don
Your thoughts?
Don
Oct 8, 2017 00:02:05 #
PAR4DCR I assist a top wedding shooter in my market... for your scenario i.e. "reception for friends that could not make the out of state wedding. Glass doors all around and a 45' high ceiling..." At this type of venue she directs me while I carry a carbon fiber staff with her speedLight mounted in a small softbox. I typically hold it at least several feet above her lens axis and slightly offset to either side... She indicates which side... This has been her primary go-to workflow for reception coverage in large venues... Highly effective, we cover a lot of ground quickly...
Her kit? DSLR with radio transmitter to drive the speedlight... Obviously the speedlight is equipped with a radio receiver... She mates her DSLR to several constant aperture f/2.8 zooms.
btw, I'm not remotely interested in studying your venue via Google... Instead I'm going to be brutally honest with you, there is absolutely no substitute for actually scouting the venue several days before the event... This is likely the ONLY way you'll get your head around the challenges latent within... Trust me here... Experience is a brutal teacher...
As for your kit? Those DX bodies are certainly up to the task albeit one of your optics is a tad slow for your mission a.k.a. assignment...
While doable I quickly gave up on Nikon's 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 DX zoom optic for weddings/receptions... It simply isn't pro-level (lacks the ability to isolate with shallow DOF) thus for wedding events I now rely on on the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM Zoom Lens for Nikon DX bodies... and the AF-S 85mm f/1.8G FX prime Nikkor (it's light and provides all the reach I need on a DX body). Both these optics are pro-level glass and are extremely cost effective...
That said the AF-S DX 16-80mm f/2.8-4E ED VR Nikkor is indeed a respectable performer optically and although not a constant aperture it should certainly mate well on both your DX bodies...
Best advice? Hire a tenured assistant... seriously...
Hope this helps or is at least food for thought...
I wish you well on your journey...
Her kit? DSLR with radio transmitter to drive the speedlight... Obviously the speedlight is equipped with a radio receiver... She mates her DSLR to several constant aperture f/2.8 zooms.
btw, I'm not remotely interested in studying your venue via Google... Instead I'm going to be brutally honest with you, there is absolutely no substitute for actually scouting the venue several days before the event... This is likely the ONLY way you'll get your head around the challenges latent within... Trust me here... Experience is a brutal teacher...
As for your kit? Those DX bodies are certainly up to the task albeit one of your optics is a tad slow for your mission a.k.a. assignment...
While doable I quickly gave up on Nikon's 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 DX zoom optic for weddings/receptions... It simply isn't pro-level (lacks the ability to isolate with shallow DOF) thus for wedding events I now rely on on the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 EX DC OS HSM Zoom Lens for Nikon DX bodies... and the AF-S 85mm f/1.8G FX prime Nikkor (it's light and provides all the reach I need on a DX body). Both these optics are pro-level glass and are extremely cost effective...
That said the AF-S DX 16-80mm f/2.8-4E ED VR Nikkor is indeed a respectable performer optically and although not a constant aperture it should certainly mate well on both your DX bodies...
Best advice? Hire a tenured assistant... seriously...
Hope this helps or is at least food for thought...
I wish you well on your journey...
Oct 8, 2017 10:29:03 #
I'll take a go ... and yes I took a peek at this venue on-line.
45' to the very top 'in the middle'. Appears to be in the 30' - 35' foot height on the slanted area of the ceiling which just happens to be fairly close ot the angle you would want for bounce if you are shooting straight up. With that said I would pull the back card up which will give you a bit of help with the face/eyes .... fix the zoom feature on the lens to 105mm which will help concentrate the bounce energy. I would then place one other flash on a stand to be used as off-camera rim/kicker light. Place it behind the seating tables and shoot from the DJ/stage area back toward the people seated with the rim light just slightly out of your frame. Set the rim flash to 105mm and start at 1/16 power as this will give you a starburst affect if you so chose to have it in your frame sometimes. I would start at ISO-800, highest sync speed probably around 1/200, f/4. If your lenses won't hold a fixed f/4 rent a prime 50mm that will and use your legs for your zooming ;) Fact is the bouncing, fixed 50mm will keep your manual flash settings stay very constant as you walk around the dance floor. Make shue you are not walking in a way that your straight up flash will be hitting the center area which does not have the same slanted area which helps direct the flash back at the right angle to the dance floor.
You get the most out of your limited flash units as you will have rim to help isolate the subject and illuminate the the guest, soft bounce light and with the card up a bit of dazzle in their eyes/face.
45' to the very top 'in the middle'. Appears to be in the 30' - 35' foot height on the slanted area of the ceiling which just happens to be fairly close ot the angle you would want for bounce if you are shooting straight up. With that said I would pull the back card up which will give you a bit of help with the face/eyes .... fix the zoom feature on the lens to 105mm which will help concentrate the bounce energy. I would then place one other flash on a stand to be used as off-camera rim/kicker light. Place it behind the seating tables and shoot from the DJ/stage area back toward the people seated with the rim light just slightly out of your frame. Set the rim flash to 105mm and start at 1/16 power as this will give you a starburst affect if you so chose to have it in your frame sometimes. I would start at ISO-800, highest sync speed probably around 1/200, f/4. If your lenses won't hold a fixed f/4 rent a prime 50mm that will and use your legs for your zooming ;) Fact is the bouncing, fixed 50mm will keep your manual flash settings stay very constant as you walk around the dance floor. Make shue you are not walking in a way that your straight up flash will be hitting the center area which does not have the same slanted area which helps direct the flash back at the right angle to the dance floor.
You get the most out of your limited flash units as you will have rim to help isolate the subject and illuminate the the guest, soft bounce light and with the card up a bit of dazzle in their eyes/face.
Oct 8, 2017 14:29:02 #
Thanks for your reply and advice Thomas. Yes, I definitely plan on making a visit to the venue BEFORE the shoot takes place.
Don
Don
Oct 8, 2017 14:34:17 #
Funny you should mention a 50mm prime Beercat, I just happen to have a 50mm 1.8. I see you also recommend shooting at ISO 800, you don't think that might be a little high? I was planning on around 200-400. By "card" are you referring to the white bounce flash card on the SB910?
Don
Don
Oct 8, 2017 16:40:24 #
Oct 8, 2017 16:58:18 #
Thanks Beercat. Will do a little practice when I visit the venue a few weeks before the reception.
Don
Don
Oct 8, 2017 20:26:20 #
Don, you have some good suggestions here. Let me add that not only is scouting the venue important, but in terms of lighting you also need to understand what events are taking place and where exactly they will take place.
Some clarification and thoughts:
When I mentioned softbox I didn't mean that you needed to buy one. I was referring to firing/bouncing one of your speed lights into a white wall strategically located to illuminate the portion of the venue you are photographing. The suggestion Thomas had of having an assistant cary a portable softbox is a great way to go provided you can come up with an assistant. I have the Wescott Rapid box kit and it has been a fantastic tool. It will cost you around $200 if you choose to go that route.
Now, you mentioned placing a speed light by the DJ. Yes, if the DJ is located where I think he may be. I have even plugged in a studio strobe along with the friendly DJs equipment. Another consideration is that the DJ may bring lights albeit colored and funky ones. That may play into your lighting scenario.
Jerry has done his homework and is suggesting that ceiling bounce may work depending on your location. It might, but you definitely want to try that out beforehand. If you are not careful you may end up with more underexposed images than you bargained for. Same with the kicker light. Jerry gets great results, but it takes some experience and good skill level to get it right.
Lenses, well yes the 18-200 has limitations primarily depth of field, but I am not sure you will be going after too many shallow depth of field images in this reception. Purely speculation, but I would guess they already have album quality pics from their out of state wedding and they want you to primarily document this event. The 18-200 would give you great flexibly as opposed to "foot zooming" with the 50 1.8.
Bottom line, you will have to determine your friend's expectations, mixed with your experience level, mixed with what the venue affords you and go with a plan you are comfortable with. Another way to say that is you want to get the important shots. If you are attempting something that you are not comfortable with then there is a risk of missing the shot altogether.
Some clarification and thoughts:
When I mentioned softbox I didn't mean that you needed to buy one. I was referring to firing/bouncing one of your speed lights into a white wall strategically located to illuminate the portion of the venue you are photographing. The suggestion Thomas had of having an assistant cary a portable softbox is a great way to go provided you can come up with an assistant. I have the Wescott Rapid box kit and it has been a fantastic tool. It will cost you around $200 if you choose to go that route.
Now, you mentioned placing a speed light by the DJ. Yes, if the DJ is located where I think he may be. I have even plugged in a studio strobe along with the friendly DJs equipment. Another consideration is that the DJ may bring lights albeit colored and funky ones. That may play into your lighting scenario.
Jerry has done his homework and is suggesting that ceiling bounce may work depending on your location. It might, but you definitely want to try that out beforehand. If you are not careful you may end up with more underexposed images than you bargained for. Same with the kicker light. Jerry gets great results, but it takes some experience and good skill level to get it right.
Lenses, well yes the 18-200 has limitations primarily depth of field, but I am not sure you will be going after too many shallow depth of field images in this reception. Purely speculation, but I would guess they already have album quality pics from their out of state wedding and they want you to primarily document this event. The 18-200 would give you great flexibly as opposed to "foot zooming" with the 50 1.8.
Bottom line, you will have to determine your friend's expectations, mixed with your experience level, mixed with what the venue affords you and go with a plan you are comfortable with. Another way to say that is you want to get the important shots. If you are attempting something that you are not comfortable with then there is a risk of missing the shot altogether.
Oct 9, 2017 12:38:54 #
Your 7100 and 7200 bodies will do better with high ISO, Any shot that is underexposed then "fixed" in post will have a LOT more noise, than a high ISO, properly exposed shot. Face it, a little grain isn't anything to be afraid of. Just call it the "artistic choice to have it look more like film" HAHA
bk
bk
Oct 9, 2017 13:11:18 #
bkyser wrote:
Your 7100 and 7200 bodies will do better with high ISO, Any shot that is underexposed then "fixed" in post will have a LOT more noise, than a high ISO, properly exposed shot. Face it, a little grain isn't anything to be afraid of. Just call it the "artistic choice to have it look more like film" HAHA
bk
bk
and if it is really bad, then artistic black and white makes it all better
Oct 9, 2017 16:31:03 #
jaysnave wrote:
and if it is really bad, then artistic black and white makes it all better
I would love to say that I've never had to do that.........but......... (especially when I first moved to digital with a D-70,)
Oct 9, 2017 18:40:37 #
bkyser wrote:
I would love to say that I've never had to do that.........but......... (especially when I first moved to digital with a D-70,)
I confess that B&W is my save if I miss focus on a great shot.
Oct 9, 2017 19:39:16 #
Jay & bkyser, you have given me more ideas to think about. I plan to visit the venue ahead of time and late evening if that is possible, will call and check on this. The B&W idea is one I had not thought of, will give it a try. Also plan on meeting with the new bride when she comes into town to get move of an idea of what she wants and how the layout will be. Working with her dad presently and he is saying just go and shoot pictures, very nice guy but not real helpful.
As far as lenses go will probably bring the 50mm and maybe my 105mm just in case. When I visit the Tea Room will try some bounce flash shots from various locations and the slopping ceiling to try and gauge the results.
Guys, thanks for all the help and ideas, it is greatly appreciated. If you think of anything else please let me know.
Don
As far as lenses go will probably bring the 50mm and maybe my 105mm just in case. When I visit the Tea Room will try some bounce flash shots from various locations and the slopping ceiling to try and gauge the results.
Guys, thanks for all the help and ideas, it is greatly appreciated. If you think of anything else please let me know.
Don
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