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I hope Trump supporters eventually see the dangers
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Sep 28, 2017 11:23:12   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
WNYShooter wrote:
Trump has never declared personal bankruptsy, that probably explains why you "can't remember how many times".


Suppose you want to buy a used car. The salesman tells you what you know is a grand lie. You negotiate, and he tells you another. Do you still believe him? Do you assume he always lies? Do you trust him. Suppose he tells you a lie that has nothing to do with selling you a car? He just like lying. He even does it when it's unnecessary.

Do you trust this salesman?

Do you want to do business with him?

Well, Trump is working on a list approaching two thousand lies!! I mean verified, written down, proved-to-be lies, recognized by every thinking person, including yourself.

He told a lie yesterday that he will oppose today with a conflicting lie, but tomorrow he will lie again, in opposition to both the earlier lies!

You want this man in control of the Military, Taxes, Truth in general--you want to do business with this man, and have him in control of your life and the US Economy, Peace-or-War?

Really, do you?

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 11:41:04   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
KGOldWolf wrote:
The vast majority of ardent Trump supporters rarely respond with valid counterpoints in their rebuttal posts (i.e. "Flying Tiger's typically vile, childish taunts).

I beleive this is the result of providing his angry constituecy a national figurehead who panders to their anger. When Trump is finally impeached or forced from office due to the widespread affirmation of his mental incompetency, these supporters will be forever angry.

Trump's seriously incompetent "leadership" will doubtlessly leave the country forever dangerously polarized.

This is more fundamental than a liberal versus conservative issue

I didn't vote for Trump but I truly wanted him to succeed for the good of the country. I now see he can never succeed. His only "accomplishment" will be the ruination of this country's role as leader of the free world. In the process, Trump will have irreparably harmed the ability of our country's citizens to work together to face the nation's future challenges as "One nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all"
The vast majority of ardent Trump supporters rarel... (show quote)


We agree on one thing: neither of us voted for Trump.

However on reflection, he may actually be good for the USA. He will eventually force the Republicans and Democrats toward the center in order to get anything accomplished.

As far as leading the free world, that began its' downhill slide when Obama bowed to a foreign leader in subservience.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 11:54:06   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
BobHartung wrote:
We agree on one thing: neither of us voted for Trump.

However on reflection, he may actually be good for the USA. He will eventually force the Republicans and Democrats toward the center in order to get anything accomplished.

As far as leading the free world, that began its' downhill slide when Obama bowed to a foreign leader in subservience.


I haven't seen any Republicans become more moderate, or move toward the center.

You remark about Obama is cheap, uninformed, and irrevelant.

You claimed Obama bow in subservience, ignoring W kissing foreign leaders on the lips--how's that for subservience.

The same people who attacked us in 9/11 and George holding their hands and kissing them--on the lips, mind you!-- then going to a futile war with their support, while they funded terrorist groups against us.

That, my uninformed friend, is subserviance at an institutional and shameful level--yet you excuse.

How you like them apples?

Reply
 
 
Sep 28, 2017 12:47:37   #
travelwp Loc: New Jersey
 
WNC Ralf wrote:
If he is sooo smart why has he declared bankruptcy so many times!


Under certain conditions, it is a smart business move to declare bankruptcy. Here are a few companies that have declared bankruptcy:



A123 Systems
History of Abercrombie & Fitch
Aereo
Aeroamerica
Aéropostale (clothing)
Alliance Tire Company
Ampad
Archway Cookies
Avenue (store)


B
Bakers Square
Bally Total Fitness
Baltimore Opera Company
BankUnited
Bashas'
Eddie Bauer
Beaver Motorcoach Corporation
Ben Cooper, Inc.
Bernie's
Best Products
BFG Technologies
BI-LO (United States)
Bill Heard Enterprises
Blockbuster LLC
Bloomingdale's
Borders Group
Boscov's
Bradlees
Brendle's
Broadstripe
Broadway Stores
Brook Mays
Bruno's
Bucyrus-Erie


C
California State Route 125
Chalk's International Airlines
Channel Home Centers
Charter Communications
Charter Company
Checker Motors Corporation
Checker Taxi
Chevrolet-Saturn of Harlem
Chevys Fresh Mex
Chicago Cubs
Chrysler
Chrysler Chapter 11 reorganization
Chuck E. Cheese's
Chugach Alaska Corporation
CIT Group
Citadel Broadcasting
Claim Jumper
Classic World Productions
CNO Financial Group
Coach America
Coda Automotive
Coldwater Creek
Coleco
Colonial Bancgroup
Columbia House
Commerce One
Commerce Square
Communications Corporation of America
CompuAdd
Consolidated Freightways
Continental Airlines
Copia (museum)
County Seat (store)
Crazy Eddie
Cryptek
Curtis Mathes Corporation


D
D'Lites
Dallas Sidekicks (1984–2004)
Delphi Automotive
Delta Air Lines
Dewey & LeBoeuf
Digital Domain


E
Eastern Air Lines
Eclipse Aerospace
Eclipse Aviation
Epic Aircraft
Equity Media Holdings
Ernst Home Centers
EToys.com
Exodus Communications
Extreme Championship Wrestling
Ezra Holdings


F
FairPoint Communications
Federal-Mogul
Filene's Basement
Finlay Enterprises
Florida West International Airways
Fontainebleau Resort Las Vegas
Footstar
Fortunoff
Franchise Pictures
Frank's Nursery & Crafts
Freestyle Music Park
Friendly's
Frontier Airlines
Fuddruckers


G
G.I. Joe's
Garfinckel's
Gen Con
General Maritime Corporation
General Motors Chapter 11 reorganization
GGP Inc.
Ghost Town Village
GVOX


H
H. H. Gregg
Hawaii Nui Brewing Company
History of Delta Air Lines
History of Eclipse Aviation


I
Imperial 400
IWG plc


J
J.W. Mays
Jamesway
Jay Jacobs (retailer)
Jillian's
Joanne's Bed and Back
Johnson Broadcasting


K
K-Bob's Steakhouse
Kaypro
KAZT-TV
KB Toys
KCSG
KCWK
Keck, Mahin & Cate
KFRE-TV
Kindred Healthcare
Kirkwood Mountain Resort
Kitty Hawk Aircargo
Kiwi International Air Lines
Kmart
Knights Inn
Kodak
KUBE-TV


L
LandAmerica Financial Group
Daniel Lapin
Laugh-O-Gram Studio
Lear Corporation
Liberty Medical


M
Macy's
Marvel Studios
MC Sports
Mercedes Homes
Midway Airlines (1976–1991)
Monitor Company
Motors Liquidation Company
Mrs. John L. Strong
Mulberry (email client)


N
New England Compounding Center
New Vision Television
New York Military Academy
NTelos


O
Oak Tree National
Open Mobile
Open Range Communications
Orbcomm
Orchard Supply Hardware
Organized Living
Orion Pictures
Outboard Marine Corporation
Ovation Brands
Overseas Shipholding Group
Owens Corning


P
Pacific Linen
Pappas Telecasting
Pay 'n Pak
Penn Traffic
Penton (company)
Peregrine Systems
Perkins Restaurant and Bakery
Petters Group Worldwide
Philadelphia Media Holdings
Phoenix Coyotes bankruptcy and sale
Pittsburgh Penguins
Pizza Inn
Polaroid Corporation
Presidential Airways (scheduled)
PurchasePro


Q
Qimonda


R
R & G Financial Corporation
Relativity Media
Resolute Forest Products
Reynolds Technology
Rhythm and Hues Studios
Ritz Camera Centers
Roberts Broadcasting
Round Table Pizza
Royale Airlines


S
Safari Motorcoach Corporation
Sage-Allen
Samsonite
Santa Paula Hospital
Schlotzsky's
SCO Group
Sea Launch
Seatrain Lines
Service Merchandise
Shane Company
The Sharper Image

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 13:03:36   #
KGOldWolf
 
BobHartung wrote:
We agree on one thing: neither of us voted for Trump.

However on reflection, he may actually be good for the USA. He will eventually force the Republicans and Democrats toward the center in order to get anything accomplished.

As far as leading the free world, that began its' downhill slide when Obama bowed to a foreign leader in subservience.


Yes the Obama bow was a new low for the US but at least our allies still trusted us and our word. They worked with us, now, not so much.

I share your hope that this administration will cause a refocusing to the middle and yield bipartisanship but it won't be due to his leadership but rather, his lack thereof.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 13:37:12   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
WNYShooter wrote:
Trump has never declared personal bankruptsy, that probably explains why you "can't remember how many times".


Because he operates corporation within corporation. He refuses to use email or to write down anything he doesn't have to, as it might be used against him in the future. I don't think that is the way most people do business.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 19:19:57   #
Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
 
And just think the dumb libs couldn't think of anybody better than Hillary the bag lady to run against him. Anybody but Hillary...The Donald wants whats best for the country. Hillary wanted what was best for Hillary. The Donald has more money than dirt. Hillary only has dirt.

Reply
 
 
Sep 28, 2017 19:29:47   #
btbg
 
KGOldWolf wrote:
Bob - You are correct in that Congress it totally obstructing Trump's every initiative. In many cases it is the denizens of the swamp we all want drained and removed. However, in some cases the opposition is from people of conscience who feel the best interests of the country are not being served either by Trump's questionable approach to major issues and the personal agenda of selfish elected officials. Few members of Congress qualify as "The Honorable Opposition".

John McCain has always been a maverick and I've often disagreed with his positions. Yet, in the sunset of his career he is proving to be a leader imploring these do-nothing Congresses to work together for the good of the country. I greatly his appreciate his efforts to make this happen and hope he inspires his peers to work together. He is not alone but they are the minority. I hope their ranks grow and that the anger of the citizens of our country is redirected from differing philosophies and towards ineffectual Congressmen.

Ken
Bob - You are correct in that Congress it totally ... (show quote)


I understand your point. From a conservative standpoint here is the problem.

Every time that congress does work together and compromise it moves us as a country farther to the left.

For example even the Graham Cassidy proposal still kept the affordablecare taxes. It just distributed the money through the states instead of the federal government.

Given that conservatives firmly believe that the affordablecare act is unconstitutional we don't believe that alternative was any better. That's why Rand Paul and a handful of other senators really want the act repealed.

We believe that any area not specifically listed in the constitution as being a function of the federal government is unconstitutional for the federal government to be involved in.

It's pretty tough to compromise when the compromise always ends up with the federal government getting bigger when we want smaller government and less regulation.

The people who supported Trump hoped that as an outsider he would be able to cut through the red tape and role back regulations and the size of government.

And he has rolled back some regulations, but has been unable to do anything about the size and scope of government.

McCain, as honorable a man as he may be, isn't a conservative and never has been. He may be a Republican, but he is still a progressive who believes that the federal government is the answer to our problems rather than believing like Regan that the federal government is the problem.

We would be happy to work with Democrats provided that they are willing to shrink the size and scope of government and go back to actually following at least most of the constitution. Either that or working to pass amendments to the constitution that reflect what we are actually doing.

Instead there has never been a government program passed that has later been repealed and done away with. Government just continues to grow. McCain may be fine with that, but we aren't.

So at any time when the Democrats are willing to talk about cutting spending and paying down the debt, or getting government off of our back, then absolutely we will be happy to work with them. Until then, not so much.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 19:40:51   #
btbg
 
KGOldWolf wrote:
Leica, all that you've written is a prime example of the cause of my original post. The assertions you make about others are really nothing more that your loathsome self-assessment. Your strategy is always the same - pick a point, focus solely on it and then demand proof. Why should anyone bother responding when your challenges are shrouded in cheap personal insults.

You question my love of my country. You are totally wrong. That is they very reason I call people like you out. Your blind acceptance of Trump and his malevolent machinations are the greatest threat this country has ever faced. He is destroying the country's unity, and you like 38% of the population, his core constituecy, are following this trumped up Pied Piper to our country's destruction from within. Trump is a hate monger, a war monger, a greedy, self-serving, lying "SOB" who will pander to his core constituecy at the expense of the best interests of the country I love. Go to hell with your outrageous projections of my lack of love of country. Standing against Trump and his minority minions is serving the best interests of our nation. If you want to follow the "Pu**y Grabber In Chief" go ahead, introduce your wife and daughter to him, after all he's your chosen leader.

He will be eventually removed from office. The only proof you will accept will be provided by time itself. Nothing but empiric evidence will satisfy you. Trump's behavior and instability, poor decisions and malfeasance will be the cause. Here's a surprise for you. I wanted him to succeed because that would have been best for the country. He cannot for his own personal weaknesses are his undoing. What is best for the country is for this imposter to go away and let the country attempt to restore its fractured unity and hopefully find future bipartisan cooperation. Trump is a divider - that's his game and people like you are his pawns.

One final note, it is astonishing that you completed a post that isn't full of your typically vile rhetoric. Next try removing your silly taunts, they undermine whatever arcane points you are laboring to make.
Leica, all that you've written is a prime example ... (show quote)


Part of what you say is true. However, the statement that Trump is a divider is not entirely fair.

The reality is that Obama was the great divider. Trump is a direct result of the backlash from what the Democratic party and Obama did during his eight years in office.

That is an inescapable fact. Without Obama, Trump would have been impossible. Thus it follows that no matter how much Trump may divide, the divide actually started with Obama and reached the point that it made the vacuum that Trump filled.

When those who pan Trump recognize that the problem started at least eight years ago, probably even longer and quit blaming Trump for everything that is currently going on then maybe we can begin to have an honest discourse.

The fiasco with the NFL and Trump is a great example. The entire left is up in arms with Trump, as is the NFL. Trump's post was idiotic, but it gave those in the NFL who were protesting an opportunity to clarify their position and to use Trumps words as an opportunity to present their case logically and calmly.

A few have, but mostly they just went to the knee jerk reaction of condemning Trump and protesting him and the original protests and the reason for them seem to have been largely forgotten.

The opportunity was there for discourse, but instead people are saying that Trump is trying to stop free speech. The reality is that Trump has the same right to free speech as the protestors did and he exercised that right.

If they really want to make life in America better use his idiotic tweets to further their cause of social justice and reform. He gave them the opportunity. Don't blame the messenger.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 19:41:09   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Twardlow wrote:
I haven't seen any Republicans become more moderate, or move toward the center.

You remark about Obama is cheap, uninformed, and irrevelant.

You claimed Obama bow in subservience, ignoring W kissing foreign leaders on the lips--how's that for subservience.

The same people who attacked us in 9/11 and George holding their hands and kissing them--on the lips, mind you!-- then going to a futile war with their support, while they funded terrorist groups against us.

That, my uninformed friend, is subserviance at an institutional and shameful level--yet you excuse.

How you like them apples?
I haven't seen any Republicans become more moderat... (show quote)


mmmm.. Sounds like sour grapes, but you like me are entitled to your opinion.

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 19:45:03   #
btbg
 
Reddog wrote:
He has made us the joke of the World and is viewed like the N Korean leader! Trumps followers follow him just as blindly as the N Korean's follow Jung! Turn on any news station except Fox and you will have your answer!


You forget that Trump actually got China to stop at least some financial dealings with North Korea, while it was Obama that negotiated in such a way that North Korea has managed to get long range missiles, not Trump.

Trump may not be helping the problem, but to blame him for the problem is ridiculous. 20 years or more of negotiation with North Korea has ended with them having missiles and probably nuclear warheads. The estimates are that they can put a nuclear warhead on a missile as soon as 8 or 9 months from now. That's not Trumps fault.

Reply
 
 
Sep 28, 2017 20:41:04   #
travelwp Loc: New Jersey
 
Hal81 wrote:
And just think the dumb libs couldn't think of anybody better than Hillary the bag lady to run against him. Anybody but Hillary...The Donald wants whats best for the country. Hillary wanted what was best for Hillary. The Donald has more money than dirt. Hillary only has dirt.


!!!

Reply
Sep 28, 2017 20:43:12   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
Hal81 wrote:
And just think the dumb libs couldn't think of anybody better than Hillary the bag lady to run against him. Anybody but Hillary...The Donald wants whats best for the country. Hillary wanted what was best for Hillary. The Donald has more money than dirt. Hillary only has dirt.


Trum lies. All the lies, all the time, foollin’ all the people, always lyin’.

Shame on you.

Reply
Sep 29, 2017 05:07:34   #
KGOldWolf
 
btbg wrote:
I understand your point. From a conservative standpoint here is the problem.

Every time that congress does work together and compromise it moves us as a country farther to the left.

For example even the Graham Cassidy proposal still kept the affordablecare taxes. It just distributed the money through the states instead of the federal government.

Given that conservatives firmly believe that the affordablecare act is unconstitutional we don't believe that alternative was any better. That's why Rand Paul and a handful of other senators really want the act repealed.

We believe that any area not specifically listed in the constitution as being a function of the federal government is unconstitutional for the federal government to be involved in.

It's pretty tough to compromise when the compromise always ends up with the federal government getting bigger when we want smaller government and less regulation.

The people who supported Trump hoped that as an outsider he would be able to cut through the red tape and role back regulations and the size of government.

And he has rolled back some regulations, but has been unable to do anything about the size and scope of government.

McCain, as honorable a man as he may be, isn't a conservative and never has been. He may be a Republican, but he is still a progressive who believes that the federal government is the answer to our problems rather than believing like Regan that the federal government is the problem.

We would be happy to work with Democrats provided that they are willing to shrink the size and scope of government and go back to actually following at least most of the constitution. Either that or working to pass amendments to the constitution that reflect what we are actually doing.

Instead there has never been a government program passed that has later been repealed and done away with. Government just continues to grow. McCain may be fine with that, but we aren't.

So at any time when the Democrats are willing to talk about cutting spending and paying down the debt, or getting government off of our back, then absolutely we will be happy to work with them. Until then, not so much.
I understand your point. From a conservative stand... (show quote)


Thank you, that was an excellent and insightful response. I see your points; they are valid.

It is a good day; I learned something valuable from a different perspective.

Well done!

Reply
Sep 29, 2017 09:47:43   #
Twardlow Loc: Arkansas
 
btbg wrote:
You forget that Trump actually got China to stop at least some financial dealings with North Korea, while it was Obama that negotiated in such a way that North Korea has managed to get long range missiles, not Trump.

Trump may not be helping the problem, but to blame him for the problem is ridiculous. 20 years or more of negotiation with North Korea has ended with them having missiles and probably nuclear warheads. The estimates are that they can put a nuclear warhead on a missile as soon as 8 or 9 months from now. That's not Trumps fault.
You forget that Trump actually got China to stop a... (show quote)


It is not Trump’s fault, as you say. The problem is long standing, similar to the problem with Iran.

I don’t pretend to have a solution.

However, Trump’s language and personal attacks don’t help. He and we are dealing with an illogical character, and calling names does not help the situation.

Reply
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