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Right to Photograph a child in a Public Place
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Aug 20, 2017 08:02:08   #
ronichas Loc: Long Island
 
This is from the photographers bill of rights. I have added a few links.

**They Have No Right to Review Your
Images or Take Your Gear
Law enforcement officers do not
have the right to view your images
absent a warrant. They may have the
authority to seize a camera or cell
phone when making an arrest but still
must obtain a warrant to search the
contents. Likewise, they do not have
authority to make you delete images.**

http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/photographers-what-do-if-you-are-stopped-or-detained-taking-photographs

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Aug 20, 2017 08:08:08   #
rdubreuil Loc: Dummer, NH USA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
You are wrong. Regardless of where you are each individual* has a right to his/her image. The mother was right, you were wrong.

The only time where you can take images of anyone w/o them consenting in a public place is when you do not make any effort to isolate the subject. You did exactly that: Isolate the subject.

Then why the hell did you want a picture of her son? Because you have a contest? Are you nuts?

-----
* Or legal guardian in this instance the mother.


Absolutely on point. It's about subject isolation. Any thought of monetary gain, or other public use there of whether it be a building, a logo or in this case the child would constitute the need for a model/property release (this includes entering contest, whether prize based or not) from the owner/individual. The individual in this case happens to be a minor, the mother was 100% right. Just like hunting on private property, you need permission to be there or it's trespassing; isn't it? Same applies here, you'd need to have had the mother's permission to take the image in the first place if he/she (the child) were the intended subject.

Otherwise whose to say you weren't stalking these people, think about it. Would you want some stranger taking photos of your children without you knowing or okaying it? Who's to say what their actual intent is? The mother was completely within her right and in my opinion being a good mom and being aware of her child's surroundings. Think before you shot, it will go a long way to keeping you out of criminal or small claims court.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:08:10   #
johnst1001a Loc: West Chester, Ohio
 
I have no idea why you would want to isolate the child, but you could easily have done it with post processing. Simply take the picture of the car or other object with the child in it, then crop later. Billions of pictures are taken with people in the background or even the foreground. I am sure there are plenty of people that then zoom on specific individuals for their own reasons. In this day in age you have to be very careful as to why you want the picture, and how you do it. There are many nut jobs out there who use these pictures for the wrong reasons.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:09:26   #
krl48 Loc: NY, PA now SC
 
camerapapi wrote:
Never ever, at least in the State of Florida, photograph a child without the consent of the parents. Here it is the law.


Which Florida law are you referring to?

Here's a news story for June 2017 that contradicts your statement.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-reg-child-photography-cases-20170621-story.html

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Aug 20, 2017 08:13:35   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
A.J.R. wrote:
What a loss it would have been to photography if Cartier-Bresson and Robert Doisneau had been stopped photographing children in the streets of Paris.


Especially after they got in front of their computers and posted the images . . . Right!

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Aug 20, 2017 08:13:35   #
Mary Kate Loc: NYC
 
Demianr wrote:
I have taken many photos of kids in public places and at events, including kids dancing jumping or just being cute. Mostly as part of an event of some sort.
A few have gone into the news paper that I regularly shoot for.
It is a first amendment issue.
If any parent or person objected, I would IMMEDIATELY delete it.
This is just common courtesy.
If you use that photo for any commercial purpose with out a signed release you are looking for a lawsuit.
I generally go up to a parent and give them my card and offer to send them a picture via e-mail if they are around.
I have taken many photos of kids in public places ... (show quote)


I agree with you, it's common courtesy. Not the view of some pompous self-inflated ass who feels entitled and nothing else matters.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:14:03   #
Kmgw9v Loc: Miami, Florida
 
Jaackil wrote:
I love all the Philadelphia Lawyers here who have stated the Law so convincingly but incorrect. First it does not matter what city or town you are in the law is the same in the US no matter what. The OP was within his rights and the Cops were 100% wrong. The tip off should have been when they said delete the photo or lose your camera. If they had confiscated the Camera the photos would have had to have been preserved for evidence. As some others have correctly stated any person place or thing in a public area maybe photographed. There is no expectation of privacy in a public area. This applies to everyone not just celebrities. You may in fact sell those images without a release. You do not need a release to share them post them sell them or do anything you want with them. You can print them and sell them as art if you want no release needed. You can sell them to a magazine no release needed. The only time you would need a release is if you are using them for some "commercial" purpose which is defined by law as using to promote or advertise. So you can sell them to a newspaper but not to Pepsi to be used in an advertisement with out a release. You would need a release if you post them on your own website for the purpose of promoting your own photography business. so the law gets blurry in cases where there is some cross over. Let's say the OP was going to put those photos on display at an art show which people can come and purchase them He has every right to do that without release However any photos he uses to advertise or promote the show he must have a release for.
Morally and Ethically the OP had every right to photograph that child. He did nothing wrong. For those that said they would have deleted it because it was the ethical thing to do STFU! You don't know what you are talking about! He did nothing unethical. This is how art is made and history is recorded what was unethical was the behavior of the police. What would have been unethical was destroying images taken in public because someone insisted. By the way The sailor kissing a girl in time square and the Girl from Afghanistan did not have model releases and those are two of the most published pictures in history. The girl from Afghanistan I believe was a minor at the time. The photographer made a lot of money off that one and won a Pulitzer Prize NO Model release.
I love all the Philadelphia Lawyers here who have ... (show quote)


Thank you for your contribution.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:16:58   #
krl48 Loc: NY, PA now SC
 
Mary Kate wrote:
I agree with you, it's common courtesy. Not the view of some pompous self-inflated ass who feels entitled and nothing else matters.


Since when does exercising one's rights under the law make someone a "pompous self-inflated ass who feels entitled..."?

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Aug 20, 2017 08:21:19   #
Mary Kate Loc: NYC
 
krl48 wrote:
Since when does exercising one's rights under the law make someone a "pompous self-inflated ass who feels entitled..."?


So how has free speech been viewed lately?? That is a right under the law. It is arrogance to think that when it comes to another person you have a greater right.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:21:41   #
Marionsho Loc: Kansas
 
tatala wrote:
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show in a main street in a town and I photograph a child standing in the street and the mother came up to me and asked me to delete the picture of her child. I than proceeded to explain to her that it was a public place and I was allowed to take all the photos I wanted as long as I didn't use then for a monetary gain.
I might enter her son's picture in a photo club's private competition if it turned out to be good enough in which the reward is a ribbon if it wins. So I was not willing to delete it. She than called over the police who kept me retained for about an hour to see what was to come of this matter and they finally said I had two alternatives. Delete it or give them the camera or be arrested. I really thought I was within the law and I didn't have to delete it but I didn't have much choice here since I didn't want to be arrested and they said my picture would be in the paper and all the pictures I had taken for the day at the car show like 350 including maybe 30 other children would be deleted. What are your thoughts on this? What is the law here? Thanks.
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show i... (show quote)

I would have asked the lady how stupid are you, to think that deleting the image actually DELETES the image. Then I would have deleted the image and laughed and walked off.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:22:22   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
rdubreuil wrote:
Absolutely on point. It's about subject isolation. Any thought of monetary gain, or other public use there of whether it be a building, a logo or in this case the child would constitute the need for a model/property release (this includes entering contest, whether prize based or not) from the owner/individual. The individual in this case happens to be a minor, the mother was 100% right. Just like hunting on private property, you need permission to be there or it's trespassing; isn't it? Same applies here, you'd need to have had the mother's permission to take the image in the first place if he/she (the child) were the intended subject.

Otherwise whose to say you weren't stalking these people, think about it. Would you want some stranger taking photos of your children without you knowing or okaying it? Who's to say what their actual intent is? The mother was completely within her right and in my opinion being a good mom and being aware of her child's surroundings. Think before you shot, it will go a long way to keeping you out of criminal or small claims court.
Absolutely on point. It's about subject isolation... (show quote)


Again, cite a case where anyone was convicted of a crime for photographing a child in public, isolated or not.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:24:22   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Mary Kate wrote:
I agree with you, it's common courtesy. Not the view of some pompous self-inflated ass who feels entitled and nothing else matters.


There are too many people in this country that believe to their core that their right to something trumps anyone else's right - then the start bullying you if you disagree . . . If some photographer invades my space with his camera and I am not comfortable, I am entitled to my sense of safety, even if I am in a public space. He has a choice - he can produce a real model release, not a slip of paper with a single sentence that somehow indicates my consent, and offer me some form of compensation. I am not looking to make money, but it does speak to the legitimacy and professionalism of the guy with the camera. I would probably tell the guy to keep his offer of compensation. The point is that far too many people believe that society is the same as it was when the old photographers were running around with cameras snapping candids of random people. Sadly it isn't. And they need to adjust. Insisting you have the "right" to take a picture is the same as insisting you have the "right of way" in a traffic accident. The judge will laugh, and tell you it was your responsibility to YIELD the right of way and likely charge you with failing to yield the right of way. It's not about who's right and who's wrong - it's all about common sense and courtesy.

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Aug 20, 2017 08:30:03   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
tatala wrote:
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show in a main street in a town and I photograph a child standing in the street and the mother came up to me and asked me to delete the picture of her child. I than proceeded to explain to her that it was a public place and I was allowed to take all the photos I wanted as long as I didn't use then for a monetary gain.
I might enter her son's picture in a photo club's private competition if it turned out to be good enough in which the reward is a ribbon if it wins. So I was not willing to delete it. She than called over the police who kept me retained for about an hour to see what was to come of this matter and they finally said I had two alternatives. Delete it or give them the camera or be arrested. I really thought I was within the law and I didn't have to delete it but I didn't have much choice here since I didn't want to be arrested and they said my picture would be in the paper and all the pictures I had taken for the day at the car show like 350 including maybe 30 other children would be deleted. What are your thoughts on this? What is the law here? Thanks.
Right to photograph a child. I was at a car show i... (show quote)


I do know that any photo competition I have entered required a signed release form from the parents! So I am going to say (sadly because of idiots who want to do harm) that you are in the wrong! Not that you are, it's just the way you have to deal with Snowflakes, Parents, Cops, Judges! As great a man you may be, just delete it and tell the kid to get the hell out of the way, your trying to take a picture, oh heck that won't work either, you swore at the little poor child who most likely gears the 'F" word 500 times a day! It's a sad World we live in, very sad! Just a note, I carry release forms with me just in case, but they can still say no!

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Aug 20, 2017 08:33:17   #
dparker708
 
He's either nuts or a pedophile. Creepy post!

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Aug 20, 2017 08:33:58   #
Tet68survivor Loc: Pomfret Center CT
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
Again, cite a case where anyone was convicted of a crime for photographing a child in public, isolated or not.


I think they are worried about the kids photo ending up on a porn site or such! Sad to say!

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