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Marumi ND4X Neutral Density Filter -- crap!
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Jun 20, 2012 12:41:08   #
GDRoth Loc: Southeast Michigan USA
 
Where is the lighthouse located? Great shot! What are the buildings around it? Looks like residential. I like lighthouses but not in my back yard. :lol:[/quote]

I bet the lighthouse was there long before the homes.....

Reply
Jun 20, 2012 13:13:29   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
Not a terrible shot
KG wrote:
Last night, I decided to try using neutral density filters on sunny days when using fill flash.

The idea is that by using an ND filter I would be able to open up aperture and take pictures with shallower DOF without having to use high speed sync (and waste flash power).

I did some reading to confirm my thoughts , and decided that I really need to get myself a 3-stop filter. No need for variable density. 3 stops would be just what I need according to my metering of a typical situation in which I would be using it. I decided to settle on a filter from B+W.

Unfortunately, we are traveling around in Italy right now. Well, that's not the unfortunate part. The unfortunate part happens to be the fact that I got the urge to buy an ND filter at a time when we were staying in a small town with only one (smallish) photography/video store.

They only had two filters in stock. One was a 6-stop B+W, and the other one was a 2-stop Marumi.

6 stops is way too much for me. So I decided to get the one made by Marumi.
Although I never heard about that brand before, the "Made in Japan" sign (along with the fact that there wasn't any alternative at the moment) encouraged me to get it.

Here is the result of a little test. Both shots were taken with a Canon 17-55 (with a hood) on a 7D on a tripod with a remote shutter. Bright daylight with a fill flash (CTO gel).

The shots are a bit overexposed. No post processing. Straight-from-camera JPG.

Sadly, I only got a chance to look at the pics on a larger screen later in the day. We are in another town now. Too far away to drive back just to return the filter.

The first shot was taken without a filter. The second one is with Marumi ND4X.

I guess that's what happens when you stick a $60-piece of glass in front of an $1100-piece of glass.
Last night, I decided to try using neutral density... (show quote)


Not a terrible shot, but the halo the young man is wearing is pretty obvious. There is even some of that
glow on his shoulders. I suspect a good B+W filter would not have done that, but there are no guarantees.

Reply
Jun 20, 2012 13:18:19   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
GDRoth wrote:
Where is the lighthouse located? Great shot! What are the buildings around it? Looks like residential. I like lighthouses but not in my back yard. :lol:


I bet the lighthouse was there long before the homes.....[/quote]

I'm sure! Did a little research and it's in New Smyrna Beach, FL. I think the houses are for staff and a museum. Might visit there sometime. About a 8 hr. drive for me. Near Daytona, Disney, NASA, etc. Nice area. :thumbup:

Reply
 
 
Jun 20, 2012 16:39:40   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
MtnMan wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:


NSB Lite House From 800' with no ND, PP or whoofle dust. Just straight in out of the camera. C


"Straight out of the camera" includes post processing both in-camera and with whatever media you use to display; e.g. print or projection. It is only a question of whether you want to take control of it or not. If you displayed what the image sensor recorded we'd only see a bunch of electronic bits...like an unexposed negative from a film camera.

Your camera likely includes controls that would allow you to control some of that such as what size jpeg to compute and what Nikon calls "Picture Controls" which let you set things like saturation, contrast, and sharpening used in creating the jpeg image. You also are somehow selecting a white balance for the camera's computer to use when creating the jpeg.

So it might be better to say something like, "With the post processing choices my camera defaults to".
quote=PIXChuck br br NSB Lite House From 800' ... (show quote)


When anyone around here talks about Post Processing, 99.9% of the time they mean using Photoshop or some other software to tweak the photograph after it is out of the camera. I'm sure he is aware that his camera does a few things to his pictures. That's why I shoot RAW. That way the camera doesn't manipulate as many things. Although I have to admit that sometimes the JPEGs are better than my processed RAW files.

Reply
Jun 20, 2012 17:04:28   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
ThomasS wrote:
MtnMan wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:


NSB Lite House From 800' with no ND, PP or whoofle dust. Just straight in out of the camera. C


"Straight out of the camera" includes post processing both in-camera and with whatever media you use to display; e.g. print or projection. It is only a question of whether you want to take control of it or not. If you displayed what the image sensor recorded we'd only see a bunch of electronic bits...like an unexposed negative from a film camera.

Your camera likely includes controls that would allow you to control some of that such as what size jpeg to compute and what Nikon calls "Picture Controls" which let you set things like saturation, contrast, and sharpening used in creating the jpeg image. You also are somehow selecting a white balance for the camera's computer to use when creating the jpeg.

So it might be better to say something like, "With the post processing choices my camera defaults to".
quote=PIXChuck br br NSB Lite House From 800' ... (show quote)


When anyone around here talks about Post Processing, 99.9% of the time they mean using Photoshop or some other software to tweak the photograph after it is out of the camera. I'm sure he is aware that his camera does a few things to his pictures. That's why I shoot RAW. That way the camera doesn't manipulate as many things. Although I have to admit that sometimes the JPEGs are better than my processed RAW files.
quote=MtnMan quote=PIXChuck br br NSB Lite Ho... (show quote)


Are you saying the camera is smarter than you are? :lol: Just kidding. I shoot mostly in jpeg. I've taken a few photos in raw and intend to play around with it some more but jpeg suits most of my uses. A little cropping and tonal balance in PSE10 pretty much is the limit of my PP. If you get it right at first there shouldn't be much need for a whole lot of PP. Then again I'm from the old school. My PP was in a darkroom. Makes you a better photographer when it takes hours correcting a mistake you made in the field. :thumbup:

Reply
Jun 20, 2012 21:24:57   #
ThomasS Loc: Colorado
 
pounder35 wrote:
ThomasS wrote:
MtnMan wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:


NSB Lite House From 800' with no ND, PP or whoofle dust. Just straight in out of the camera. C


"Straight out of the camera" includes post processing both in-camera and with whatever media you use to display; e.g. print or projection. It is only a question of whether you want to take control of it or not. If you displayed what the image sensor recorded we'd only see a bunch of electronic bits...like an unexposed negative from a film camera.

Your camera likely includes controls that would allow you to control some of that such as what size jpeg to compute and what Nikon calls "Picture Controls" which let you set things like saturation, contrast, and sharpening used in creating the jpeg image. You also are somehow selecting a white balance for the camera's computer to use when creating the jpeg.

So it might be better to say something like, "With the post processing choices my camera defaults to".
quote=PIXChuck br br NSB Lite House From 800' ... (show quote)


When anyone around here talks about Post Processing, 99.9% of the time they mean using Photoshop or some other software to tweak the photograph after it is out of the camera. I'm sure he is aware that his camera does a few things to his pictures. That's why I shoot RAW. That way the camera doesn't manipulate as many things. Although I have to admit that sometimes the JPEGs are better than my processed RAW files.
quote=MtnMan quote=PIXChuck br br NSB Lite Ho... (show quote)


Are you saying the camera is smarter than you are? :lol: Just kidding. I shoot mostly in jpeg. I've taken a few photos in raw and intend to play around with it some more but jpeg suits most of my uses. A little cropping and tonal balance in PSE10 pretty much is the limit of my PP. If you get it right at first there shouldn't be much need for a whole lot of PP. Then again I'm from the old school. My PP was in a darkroom. Makes you a better photographer when it takes hours correcting a mistake you made in the field. :thumbup:
quote=ThomasS quote=MtnMan quote=PIXChuck br ... (show quote)


I hate to admit it, but sometimes my cameras are smarter than I am. I generally shoot RAW + JPEG, because I like to see if I can do better than the camera did with it's JPEG. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It is fun though, no matter what happens.

Reply
Jun 20, 2012 22:58:42   #
Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio
 
you know there is not going to be much you can do at 17mm regardless of the f-stop and ND filter you choose. This is a wide angle lens and usually most things are always more or less in focus no matter what aperture you are using. You need to go above 55mm if you want that sort of look to your images. Also you can do this in PP by making a duplicate then blurring the top layer and using a layer mask to paint back in the areas you want to remain sharp. Done right you would be hard pressed to notice a difference from pp to lens effect.

Reply
 
 
Jun 20, 2012 23:35:53   #
TomballLegend Loc: Tomball, Texas
 
[quote=pounder35]
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
Well at least we aren't BS'ing about post processing! To paraphrase the Bard, William, Methinks he protests too loudly! Last thing I'd be doing, touring Italy and looking at all the "Naked Davids" is bitch about similar looking pictures! WE Texans have a saying--he'd complain, even, if they wree hanging him with a new rope

You need to read your posts before hitting "send". :lol: I got the point though. The problem is the ropes aren't being used. Oh crap! I've started more trouble! :roll: :thumbup:
Well at least we aren't BS'ing about post processi... (show quote)


>>>There, is that better! Some folks just need to bitch---keeps the juices flowing. Hey pounder, are my 76 year old eyes beginning to need help? Damned if I saw much of anything wrong with the guy's product!......C
quote=PIXChuck Well at least we aren't BS'ing abo... (show quote)


My comment was made in a joking manner. Hence the :lol: thrown in. I don't bitch I just start trouble. :lol: Sometimes it's fun and sometimes people take me way too seriously. Either way a lot of people contribute more info which this is all about. As my ex tells me "Not everybody shares your warped sense of humor." She was one of them. :roll: :thumbup:
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck Well at least we ... (show quote)


Think I married her sister! What state on the dark side of the moon are you in? My avitar is cuz I'm in witness protection and no one can find Tomball.
quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck W... (show quote)


:lol: I had witness protection program listed at one time for location but someone started a thread to be more honest on locations so I narrowed it down a bit. :roll: Told you I have a warped sense of humor. I move between central AL. and LA. (lower AL not the left coast). Spend a lot of time in the FL panhandle. When you're in the WPP you have to keep moving! Right? :thumbup: Love the sign!
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 ... (show quote)


>>>CTP: That's why the Area 51 avitar. You oil patch? Reference "Wit/pro" She Who Must Be Obeyed and I have, counting our last repatriation back to TEJAS, moved 11 times. Moving target, aero space industry and later energy kept us moving. Don't worry, Pownder, takes a lot to make me frown---and anyone who loves dawgs, can't be any bad!!!! Pet peeves include people, up to their necks in enjoyment, bitching about it!.....C
quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck ... (show quote)


Where is the lighthouse located? Great shot! What are the buildings around it? Looks like residential. I like lighthouses but not in my back yard. :lol:
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 ... (show quote)


>>>CTP:"NSB" New Symrna Beach FL. Just down Hwy One from a neat, little, very active retired Naval Training Airport. Most of the advertising banner aircraft that fly over NASCAR 500(Daytona) and Bike Week fly out of it along with a couple active Flight Schools and FBO's. A neat place for retired aero freaks like me. The lighthouse sits in the middle of a complex of buildings. One is a museum and others are the original operator's housing and misc equipment buildings---no one lives on the property any longer! Incidently, diju get a load of the photo purist critiquing my description? How in hell are they able to speak thru clenched teeth. It'll probably grab him by the throat when I tell him I shoot Pentax!

Reply
Jun 21, 2012 03:07:49   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
KG wrote:
Last night, I decided to try using neutral density filters on sunny days when using fill flash.

The idea is that by using an ND filter I would be able to open up aperture and take pictures with shallower DOF without having to use high speed sync (and waste flash power).

I did some reading to confirm my thoughts , and decided that I really need to get myself a 3-stop filter. No need for variable density. 3 stops would be just what I need according to my metering of a typical situation in which I would be using it. I decided to settle on a filter from B+W.

Unfortunately, we are traveling around in Italy right now. Well, that's not the unfortunate part. The unfortunate part happens to be the fact that I got the urge to buy an ND filter at a time when we were staying in a small town with only one (smallish) photography/video store.

They only had two filters in stock. One was a 6-stop B+W, and the other one was a 2-stop Marumi.

6 stops is way too much for me. So I decided to get the one made by Marumi.
Although I never heard about that brand before, the "Made in Japan" sign (along with the fact that there wasn't any alternative at the moment) encouraged me to get it.

Here is the result of a little test. Both shots were taken with a Canon 17-55 (with a hood) on a 7D on a tripod with a remote shutter. Bright daylight with a fill flash (CTO gel).

The shots are a bit overexposed. No post processing. Straight-from-camera JPG.

Sadly, I only got a chance to look at the pics on a larger screen later in the day. We are in another town now. Too far away to drive back just to return the filter.

The first shot was taken without a filter. The second one is with Marumi ND4X.

I guess that's what happens when you stick a $60-piece of glass in front of an $1100-piece of glass.
Last night, I decided to try using neutral density... (show quote)

What did you expect? Your camera compensated for the filter. Try your test again in Manual mode.
Marumi filters are not common, but all the reviews I have read have been good. I do not carry an ND filter less than 8X, but I usually carry three to five (all Cokins).

Reply
Jun 21, 2012 10:11:00   #
pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"
 
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
pounder35 wrote:
PIXChuck wrote:
Well at least we aren't BS'ing about post processing! To paraphrase the Bard, William, Methinks he protests too loudly! Last thing I'd be doing, touring Italy and looking at all the "Naked Davids" is bitch about similar looking pictures! WE Texans have a saying--he'd complain, even, if they wree hanging him with a new rope

You need to read your posts before hitting "send". :lol: I got the point though. The problem is the ropes aren't being used. Oh crap! I've started more trouble! :roll: :thumbup:
Well at least we aren't BS'ing about post processi... (show quote)


>>>There, is that better! Some folks just need to bitch---keeps the juices flowing. Hey pounder, are my 76 year old eyes beginning to need help? Damned if I saw much of anything wrong with the guy's product!......C
quote=PIXChuck Well at least we aren't BS'ing abo... (show quote)


My comment was made in a joking manner. Hence the :lol: thrown in. I don't bitch I just start trouble. :lol: Sometimes it's fun and sometimes people take me way too seriously. Either way a lot of people contribute more info which this is all about. As my ex tells me "Not everybody shares your warped sense of humor." She was one of them. :roll: :thumbup:
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck Well at least we ... (show quote)


Think I married her sister! What state on the dark side of the moon are you in? My avitar is cuz I'm in witness protection and no one can find Tomball.
quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck W... (show quote)


:lol: I had witness protection program listed at one time for location but someone started a thread to be more honest on locations so I narrowed it down a bit. :roll: Told you I have a warped sense of humor. I move between central AL. and LA. (lower AL not the left coast). Spend a lot of time in the FL panhandle. When you're in the WPP you have to keep moving! Right? :thumbup: Love the sign!
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 ... (show quote)


>>>CTP: That's why the Area 51 avitar. You oil patch? Reference "Wit/pro" She Who Must Be Obeyed and I have, counting our last repatriation back to TEJAS, moved 11 times. Moving target, aero space industry and later energy kept us moving. Don't worry, Pownder, takes a lot to make me frown---and anyone who loves dawgs, can't be any bad!!!! Pet peeves include people, up to their necks in enjoyment, bitching about it!.....C
quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck ... (show quote)


Where is the lighthouse located? Great shot! What are the buildings around it? Looks like residential. I like lighthouses but not in my back yard. :lol:
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 ... (show quote)


>>>CTP:"NSB" New Symrna Beach FL. Just down Hwy One from a neat, little, very active retired Naval Training Airport. Most of the advertising banner aircraft that fly over NASCAR 500(Daytona) and Bike Week fly out of it along with a couple active Flight Schools and FBO's. A neat place for retired aero freaks like me. The lighthouse sits in the middle of a complex of buildings. One is a museum and others are the original operator's housing and misc equipment buildings---no one lives on the property any longer! Incidently, diju get a load of the photo purist critiquing my description? How in hell are they able to speak thru clenched teeth. It'll probably grab him by the throat when I tell him I shoot Pentax!
quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck ... (show quote)


I did some on line research and found out where it was. The following is copied from an earlier post of mine.

I bet the lighthouse was there long before the homes.....
quote=pounder35 quote=PIXChuck quote=pounder35 ... (show quote)


I'm sure! Did a little research and it's in New Smyrna Beach, FL. I think the houses are for staff and a museum. Might visit there sometime. About a 8 hr. drive for me. Near Daytona, Disney, NASA, etc. Nice area.

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