amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Definitely the 80D... based upon your described uses and your and your wife's level of experience.

7D Mark II is a more pro-oriented camera with less support and automation for inexperienced users. It's highly customizable and "tweakable".... In fact, I'd wager the folks "having focusing problems" are simply using it incorrectly. The 7DII's AF system is the most complex Canon has put into any APS-C camera to date... far more complex and capable than what's in your 40D.

In fact, the 80D will come with a learning curve, too. It also has a quite sophisticated AF system that's light years ahead of your 40D, though not as complicated as the 7DII's.

For example, like your 40D (and all Canon DSLRs), with both 80D and 7DII you have choice of All Points/Automatic Selection and Single Point/User Selected focusing patterns. 80D's 45-point AF has two additional patterns: Zone Focus (9-point) and Large Zone Focus (15-point). These are sort of like scaled down versions of All Points/Auto. 7D Mark II's 65-point AF has all four of those patterns, too, plus three more: Spot Focus (high precision with a smaller, user-selected single AF point), 4-Point Expansion and 8-Point Expansion. The two Expansion patterns are sort of like Single Point plus the immediately surrounding AF points.

Like your 40D's 9-point AF, all the points in both 80D and 7DII are the higher performance "dual axis/cross type". But in both the newer cameras the AF can focus down to -3EV light levels (approx. "moonlight")... while your 40D's AF probably gives up around -1EV or -0.5EV. Also, your camera is "f/5.6 limited"... meaning that any lens and teleconverter combination exceeding f5.6 won't be able to autofocus (i.e. an f/4 lens with a 1.4X can still focus... but an f/4 lens with a 2X teleconverter that makes for effective f/8 combo cannot). Both the 80D and 7DII are "f/8 capable", allowing for use of more lens and teleconverter combinations. In this regard, the 80D might be considered superior... 27 of its 45 AF points are f/8 capable. The 7DII only has one f/8 capable point, the center one in it's 65-point array.

Both 80D and 7DII use "active matrix/transmissive LCD" focus screens in their viewfinders. These can only display the active AF points... unlike the fixed focus screen in your 40D which displays all its AF points all the time. This new type of focus screen usually takes some time to become accustomed to... but it's pretty neat once you're comfortable with it.

7DII uses dual image processors, plus a separate chip that drives the AF system. This is similar to what Canon does with their top-of-the-line 1D-series models and makes for the fastest and best tracking autofocus... ideal for sports or other fast action photography. 80D, like most Canon DSLRs, instead uses a single processor for everything... so its AF should not be expected to be quite as fast to acquire or able to maintain a lock when tracking. However, it's certainly no slouch... Probably is at least as fast and good at tracking as your 40D, likely even better (thanks to a much newer and far faster Digic processor).

80D is 24MP with some of the the "latest and greatest" sensor tech from Canon. The 7DII is 20MP, which might be a further development of the sensor from the 70D that came earlier. Still, image quality from both camears is excellent. 80D might be a wee bit more resolution, but you'd have a hard time calling one better than the other for most uses and they seem close to the same in low light. Part of the reason 7DII's resolution is slightly less is to allow it to shoot continuously at 10 frames per second, compared to 7 fps with the 80D.

80D has slightly different control layout than your 40D. Beginning with the 60D and 7D, Canon sort of split the xxD series into two model lines. Some of the 7DII controls might seem more familiar to a 40D shooter, though there are more of them on 7DII. The 80D has a multi-button pad instead of the "joystick" that's found on both 40D and 7DII. But everything still works largely the same, so a transition shouldn't be too "painful".

So, I'd recommend you save $400... 7DII sells for $1500, while 80D is now selling for $1100. Get the 80D and put the extra money toward your next trip or an extra lens or accessory. (Got a wide angle lens? The Canon EF-S 10-18mm IS STM is a real bargain for under $300!)

With either camera there might be some other costs. Both 80D and 7DII use a newer LP-E6N type of battery. They cannot share the BP-511A batteries that your 40D uses. An appropriate battery will come with the camera, of course. But if you want a spare that will be an additional expense. Also, 7DII has dual memory card slots: one for Compact Flash and the other for SD type memory. So it might be able to use any Compact Flash cards you presently use in your 40D... unless you want new, bigger, faster cards. 80D only uses SD memory, so you would definitely need to buy new cards to use with it. The good news is that both types of memory cards now have a whole lot more capacity, are much faster and are far cheaper than they were when you bought your 40D!

Want to save a bit more? Go look at the Canon Online Store for refurbished cameras... https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/cameras/refurbished-eos-digital-slr-cameras#facet:-81026611110012132791101081213275105116115&productBeginIndex:0&orderBy:11&pageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:72& Refurbished cameras are often hard to tell from new... often are demo units or open box, returned overstock, etc. Probably get better inspection and scrutiny than a brand new camera coming off the assembly line. Canon offers their refurbs with the same warranty as new, too.

Get the 80D... I think it will be ideal for you and your wife.

And, no, I'm not knocking the 7DII... In fact I use a pair of them myself. I just think the 80D a better fit for you and the extra cost of 7DII unnecessary, while it's additional complexity may be more of a hindrance than a help.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

One add on about the 7DII (I own 7DII & 6D), the AF has so many options, tweaks etc that you can download a separate manual just for the AF, it is 50 pages. I have learned a few of the various combinations for what I do and keep saying "I need to read the whole thing and experiment with all that stuff."

jessie2004

Thank you. I just tried to do that hopefully it worked. Sorry like I said I am new and still trying to navigate my way around.
Have a nice day!

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

When you are responding to someone specifically use the Quote Reply option like I did in this post, rather than just the Reply option so everyone will see the post you are responding to. Welcome and good luck.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Sorry... but that's utter B.S.

EF lenses are not necessarily any "better glass". In fact, quite a few EF-S lenses rival the image quality of even Canon's most premium L-series. Several examples are the EF-S 10-22mm USM, EF-S 17-55mm IS USM, EF-S 15-85mm IS USM and EF-S 60mm f2.8 USM Macro. They aren't as well built or sealed, but even the more affordable EF-S 10-18mm IS STM (the smallest, lightest, least expensive and only lens in its category with stabilization), EF-S 18-135mm IS USM or STM and EF-S 55-250mm IS STM are pretty darned capable.

EF lenses are almost inevitable in some cases... i.e., telephotos (there just aren't a whole lot of crop-only telephotos).

But buying only EF would be limiting your selection to larger, heavier and more expensive lenses - even a significant waste of money if only used on an APS-C camera... most especially wide angle.



Go ahead, be my guest if you feel you must spend $2700 on an EF 11-24mm f4L USM (the good news being that it's on sale, normally costs $3000). So long as you're okay lugging around a 2.5 lb. lens and spending an extra $200 for a filter holder to be able to fit it with a $250 150mm Circular Polarizing filter (uncoated). That is an amazing lens! However, using it on any APS-C camera, don't expect to get any better 11x14 or 13x19 prints than I do with my $600 EF-S 10-22mm, weighing less than 1 lb. and fitted with a $100 77mm screw-in, multi-coated C-Pol filter.

As to "future plans" for full frame... well most people don't actually need or get any benefit from full frame. Plus it's a fools game, buying lenses that way. Took me a couple years and some mistakes to figure it out myself... Even though I use both crop and FF cameras, I have and use several EF-S lenses too. They are a good value, smaller size and lower weight... and great image quality on the cameras for which they are intended. Plus, if I wanted to sell them off today, I'd make a profit on two out of three that I own... and I'd only see a loss of about $100 on the third (based on today's average prices for used). If I sold it today, even the lens where I'd lose would average out to about $1 per month cost for the time I've owned it. So, buy the lens you need for the camera you need. You can always resell them later, if things change. Might even recoup much or all that you spent, so were effectively using the lens "for free"!

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Not to mention, rather skeptical about the claims of "superiority".

OTOH, one might expect a $2000 camera to in some way or another be superior to a $1500 camera.

jessie2004

Got it Thanks again.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

Perfect.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

I didn't realize a Nikon D500, or any other Nikon for that matter, was part of the OPs short list. I must have missed that so perhaps I should consider rereading the OPs original request. Or maybe you might want to do that yourself.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Actually the 80D has "SCN" setting on top dial, which gives access to the "Scene Modes" (running man icon/sports, mountain icon/landscape, person icon/portrait, etc.) via a menu on the rear LCD/touch screen. 80D has ten different scene modes. Although not as directly accessible, these are similar to what's offered on T6i, T7i, etc.

In addition to "SCN" on it's mode dial, 80D also has: "No flash", "CA" or "creative auto", "Creative Filters" and "A+" "auto everything" modes. Those are in addition to M, Av, Tv, P and two user-definable "custom" modes (C1 and C2).

7DII doesn't have the SCN/Scene Modes. It only offers the full-auto-everything "A+" mode. The rest of it's mode dial is: M, Av, Tv, P and three user-definable "custom" modes (C1, C2 and C3).

Edit: From previous post showing them, I notice the 6D also has the SCN mode... while 5DIII and IV don't, same as 7D II.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Interesting. The built-in flash not popping up is usually because the micro-switch in the hot shoe is stuck and telling the camera that something is in the hot shoe, so it shouldn't open flash.

It's usually fixed in about 15 seconds with a wooden toothpick. I'd be a bit suspicious of any store that says it's "not repairable".

Happens sometimes on all the xxD models, as well other Canon. I've had it happen with 30D, 50D and 7D. But I didn't bother fixing, since the built-in flashes are so inadequate that I always use an accessory flash instead.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Yes, 77D has the running man/sports, mountain/scenic, close-up and portrait modes directly accessible on the mode dial. Additional Scene Modes are accessed via SCN and menu on the rear LCD, the same as 80D.

To be able to fit the additional scene modes on the dial, the 77D doesn't offer the C1 or C2 user-customized modes, the way 80D does. (40D has no "SCN", but six scene and three user-customizable modes on its mode dial. It also has A-Dep or "auto depth of field control" mode, which newer cameras discontinued using).

DavidPhares Loc: Chandler, Arizona

Robert is right on! I have owned a dozen Canon cameras, and the 80D is one the best made for the money, especially if you can the get the refurb kit listed abo e from Canon USA. What a great camera for the buck. It rates right up there for quality/cost with the old SX50hd!

While I generally shoot my 5D Mk III, I also have an M5 for travel, and the difference in carryability is remarkable.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

I have a 7D Mark II and love it. I also know that the 80D is a very nice camera. If you like a swivel LCD and video and don't care about the fast frame rate of 10fps that the 7D has, then get the 80D. But if you shoot sports and wildlife, go for the 7D Mark II.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

If separate full auto scene modes are an absolute requirement than the OP is limited to the xxxD Rebels, or preferably, the new Canon 77D.