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May 24, 2012 09:41:37   #
allanpar Loc: Southport, England uk
 
dlwhawaii wrote:
The SD14 has a mirror that pops up out of the way when you press the shutter button. At slow camera speed and long focal length that vibration gets multiplied into blurred focus. In the future, before you take a picture at slow shutter speed, use the mirror lockup and if you have one, use the wireless remote shutter release. Otherwise set the shutter release button timing for 2s after pressing the shutter button (setting button is to the left of the lens looking through the eyepiece). Experience speaking, since I also have an SD14. I thought I was the only one on the UHH forum with Sigma camera. Welcome to another Sigma shooter. :-)
The SD14 has a mirror that pops up out of the way ... (show quote)


Thank you very much for the advice, as you know the SD14 does have the mirror lock up, (although i have never used it) i will start using it.
i also have a couple of remotes one with a wire and the wireless one, so i will try that, the 2 second delay is also a great idea, thanks.

Nice to meet another Sigma user on here, i have 2 SD14 cameras, i think there pretty good, i want to get the SD1 when the price goes down a bit next year, they are 42mp. regards Allan

Reply
May 24, 2012 09:53:51   #
photophil Loc: Maryland USA
 
the bird moved... next time use a faster shutter speed

Reply
May 24, 2012 11:19:45   #
bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana
 
rpavich wrote:
allanpar wrote:
Hi can you please tell me were i went wrong on this photo, Camera Sigma sd14, lens sigma 170-500mm APO DG, using tripod, settings Aperture 6.3, shutter speed 1/20, iso 100, focal lenth 500mm.

was it the shutter speed? as the Heron does not seem crisp it looks slightly out of focus. any comments regards Allan


No matter if you are on a tripod or not...500mm and 1/20 do NOT make for a clear shot. (unless your tripod is VERY heavy duty and your subject is a rock.


amen
Photographing a living thing at 1/20 at 500mm is asking for problems like this.
quote=allanpar Hi can you please tell me were i w... (show quote)

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May 24, 2012 13:42:16   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
allanpar wrote:
Hi can you please tell me were i went wrong on this photo, Camera Sigma sd14, lens sigma 170-500mm APO DG, using tripod, settings Aperture 6.3, shutter speed 1/20, iso 100, focal lenth 500mm.

was it the shutter speed? as the Heron does not seem crisp it looks slightly out of focus. any comments regards Allan


Yup, it's way too slow a shutter speed. If your focal length is 500mm, you should have a minimum shutter speed of 1/500th.

Reply
May 24, 2012 13:46:29   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
allanpar wrote:
dlwhawaii wrote:
The SD14 has a mirror that pops up out of the way when you press the shutter button. At slow camera speed and long focal length that vibration gets multiplied into blurred focus. In the future, before you take a picture at slow shutter speed, use the mirror lockup and if you have one, use the wireless remote shutter release. Otherwise set the shutter release button timing for 2s after pressing the shutter button (setting button is to the left of the lens looking through the eyepiece). Experience speaking, since I also have an SD14. I thought I was the only one on the UHH forum with Sigma camera. Welcome to another Sigma shooter. :-)
The SD14 has a mirror that pops up out of the way ... (show quote)


Thank you very much for the advice, as you know the SD14 does have the mirror lock up, (although i have never used it) i will start using it.
i also have a couple of remotes one with a wire and the wireless one, so i will try that, the 2 second delay is also a great idea, thanks.

Nice to meet another Sigma user on here, i have 2 SD14 cameras, i think there pretty good, i want to get the SD1 when the price goes down a bit next year, they are 42mp. regards Allan
quote=dlwhawaii The SD14 has a mirror that pops u... (show quote)


This is good advise for images that are static and you're using a slow shutter speed. You never use mirror lock up for shooting wildlife. Most people will tell you to increase the shutter speed to match the focal length or double the focal length. In low light on a GBH that is standing relatively still, using a tripod, I might use 1/500th, but if I have the light I'll use 1/1250th on a 500mm lens.

Reply
May 24, 2012 14:09:56   #
nikonlad Loc: Venice, FL
 
When I shoot standing birds I try to use a shutter speed of 1/500 sec. Flying birds 1/1000 sec.
I agree with the earlier responder...increase the ISO if necessary.

Reply
May 24, 2012 21:43:29   #
marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL
 
allanpar wrote:
Hi can you please tell me were i went wrong on this photo, Camera Sigma sd14, lens sigma 170-500mm APO DG, using tripod, settings Aperture 6.3, shutter speed 1/20, iso 100, focal lenth 500mm.

was it the shutter speed? as the Heron does not seem crisp it looks slightly out of focus. any comments regards Allan


500mm and 1/20 shutter don't play well together. Just the movement of pushing the shutter button gently without a remote can cause motion blur at 1/20 with that focal length. You could pump up the ISO to 200 and get your shutter speed up but it may still be a problem. Try ISO 400 while you're at it.

Reply
 
 
May 24, 2012 22:17:10   #
Chinaman Loc: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
 
birdpix wrote:
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens at 1/20 sec. I am including part of a post I did recently regarding shooting backyard birds and sharpness but it will be equally valid with this type of photo:

Factors that contribute to getting sharp pictures. A primer for backyard bird photographers.
There are two major factors that need to be considered in getting sharp photographs: accurate focus and camera or subject movement. Here are a number of things that we can do to assist us in getting accurate focus and things that we can do to minimize the effects of camera or subject movement.
Accurate Focus:
1. We need to learn to control what the camera will focus on. We do this by using “single point Auto Focus”. That is when we use only one of the many AF points available with our camera. When we take the photograph we need to be certain that this AF point is placed on the subject in the area of most critical focus. With birds, we usually use the eye or head as that location. With birds that are not moving or are only moving parallel to our position we can use “One Shot AF”. To do this we place the focus point on the critical area, half press the shutter button to lock the focus, recompose the photo if necessary, then fully press the shutter button to take the picture. We can also use AI Servo-AF if we have a subject that is moving closer to or farther away from us. With this mode, the camera will continue to adjust focus when the subject moves BUT we need to keep the AF point on the area of critical focus.
2. We need to control our aperture in order to achieve appropriate depth of field. Especially with longer focal length lenses, depth of field will be very shallow when we use the widest apertures our lens is capable of. In addition, most lenses are not as sharp when used at either extreme of our f/stop range. We therefore use the middle range of f/stops like f/8 or f/11 which will give us the best compromise between depth of field and sharpness.
Minimizing the effects of camera and subject movement:
1. Shutter speed is the single most important factor in mitigating both camera shake and subject movement. With long lenses, the rule of thumb is that you can hand hold a lens if you are using a shutter speed at least 1 over the focal length. So for a 300mm lens that means shooting at 1/300th sec. That is fine if your bird is perfectly still but birds move, feeders and tree branches can move with a breeze and if your 1/300th shutter speed is not enough to stop that motion your subject will be blurry. For birds, I suggest you double the minimum requirement. In our example of the 300mm lens, we would then need at least 1/600th sec. This rule applies even if we have Image Stabilization in our lens because IS does not help subject motion blur! In fact, I apply this rule even if my camera is on a tripod because, again, the tripod only addresses camera movement not subject movement.

2. Learn to release the shutter gently by rolling your finger across it to first get the half press to initiate focus and then to fully depress it to take the picture. Fire your camera just like you fire a rifle. Take a breath and slowly breathe out as you roll your finger over the shutter button and take the picture. This help minimize camera movement at the instant we take the picture.

3. I advocate using a tripod only for longer, heavier lenses in which case we do not lock the tripod down as we need to be able to move our camera to keep the focus point where we want it on the bird. Because of this need to move the camera the use of mirror lock up or a remote shutter release becomes impractical. When handholding the camera, brace it against something, if possible. A tree, fence post, railing, the arm of a chair, whatever is handy will help. Keep the viewfinder tight to your face, left arm bent with the hand cradling the lens from below, left foot comfortably forward, right foot back, feet at a 90 degree angle, then use your breathing technique along with the rolling motion of the shutter finger to take your shot.


Your basic settings, using a 300mm lens would look like this: 1/600th sec at f/8 at whatever ISO is needed to achieve good exposure. In bright sunlight your ISO will be around 150. If you need to adjust for lighting conditions my preference is to adjust ISO first. Only you know how high your camera will allow you to go before you get too much noise. After ISO adjust aperture and finally f/stop.

These tips are just a basic primer on getting good focus and are geared towards folks trying to take pictures of backyard birds whether they are at a feeder or perched in a tree or bush. More advanced techniques are needed for birds in flight, longer telephoto lenses and extreme distances. Since I own Canon equipment I have used Canon’s terminology. You may have to translate some of that. These are my personal thoughts based on long experience but I don’t claim any special knowledge. I welcome all additions and comments.

Using the formula above, you would be shooting at 1/1000, f/8 at ISO 400 in bright sunlight.
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens ... (show quote)


Excellently put in 2 nutshells, birdpix. I think such info should be made available in a separate section in this forum so that others can access them readily another time. It is such a pity that it will be 'lost' after this discussion thread ends and I know for sure that this discussion will crop up again and again.

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May 25, 2012 16:36:13   #
CatSighs Loc: Moline , IL
 
Thanks so much for taking the time to write and post this!

Reply
May 25, 2012 17:57:35   #
allanpar Loc: Southport, England uk
 
Thank you everyone, for responding and for all the information sent, it is really helpful, and hopefully my photos will improve greatly. regards Allan

Reply
May 25, 2012 18:01:52   #
allanpar Loc: Southport, England uk
 
birdpix wrote:
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens at 1/20 sec. I am including part of a post I did recently regarding shooting backyard birds and sharpness but it will be equally valid with this type of photo:

Factors that contribute to getting sharp pictures. A primer for backyard bird photographers.
There are two major factors that need to be considered in getting sharp photographs: accurate focus and camera or subject movement. Here are a number of things that we can do to assist us in getting accurate focus and things that we can do to minimize the effects of camera or subject movement.
Accurate Focus:
1. We need to learn to control what the camera will focus on. We do this by using “single point Auto Focus”. That is when we use only one of the many AF points available with our camera. When we take the photograph we need to be certain that this AF point is placed on the subject in the area of most critical focus. With birds, we usually use the eye or head as that location. With birds that are not moving or are only moving parallel to our position we can use “One Shot AF”. To do this we place the focus point on the critical area, half press the shutter button to lock the focus, recompose the photo if necessary, then fully press the shutter button to take the picture. We can also use AI Servo-AF if we have a subject that is moving closer to or farther away from us. With this mode, the camera will continue to adjust focus when the subject moves BUT we need to keep the AF point on the area of critical focus.
2. We need to control our aperture in order to achieve appropriate depth of field. Especially with longer focal length lenses, depth of field will be very shallow when we use the widest apertures our lens is capable of. In addition, most lenses are not as sharp when used at either extreme of our f/stop range. We therefore use the middle range of f/stops like f/8 or f/11 which will give us the best compromise between depth of field and sharpness.
Minimizing the effects of camera and subject movement:
1. Shutter speed is the single most important factor in mitigating both camera shake and subject movement. With long lenses, the rule of thumb is that you can hand hold a lens if you are using a shutter speed at least 1 over the focal length. So for a 300mm lens that means shooting at 1/300th sec. That is fine if your bird is perfectly still but birds move, feeders and tree branches can move with a breeze and if your 1/300th shutter speed is not enough to stop that motion your subject will be blurry. For birds, I suggest you double the minimum requirement. In our example of the 300mm lens, we would then need at least 1/600th sec. This rule applies even if we have Image Stabilization in our lens because IS does not help subject motion blur! In fact, I apply this rule even if my camera is on a tripod because, again, the tripod only addresses camera movement not subject movement.

2. Learn to release the shutter gently by rolling your finger across it to first get the half press to initiate focus and then to fully depress it to take the picture. Fire your camera just like you fire a rifle. Take a breath and slowly breathe out as you roll your finger over the shutter button and take the picture. This help minimize camera movement at the instant we take the picture.

3. I advocate using a tripod only for longer, heavier lenses in which case we do not lock the tripod down as we need to be able to move our camera to keep the focus point where we want it on the bird. Because of this need to move the camera the use of mirror lock up or a remote shutter release becomes impractical. When handholding the camera, brace it against something, if possible. A tree, fence post, railing, the arm of a chair, whatever is handy will help. Keep the viewfinder tight to your face, left arm bent with the hand cradling the lens from below, left foot comfortably forward, right foot back, feet at a 90 degree angle, then use your breathing technique along with the rolling motion of the shutter finger to take your shot.


Your basic settings, using a 300mm lens would look like this: 1/600th sec at f/8 at whatever ISO is needed to achieve good exposure. In bright sunlight your ISO will be around 150. If you need to adjust for lighting conditions my preference is to adjust ISO first. Only you know how high your camera will allow you to go before you get too much noise. After ISO adjust aperture and finally f/stop.

These tips are just a basic primer on getting good focus and are geared towards folks trying to take pictures of backyard birds whether they are at a feeder or perched in a tree or bush. More advanced techniques are needed for birds in flight, longer telephoto lenses and extreme distances. Since I own Canon equipment I have used Canon’s terminology. You may have to translate some of that. These are my personal thoughts based on long experience but I don’t claim any special knowledge. I welcome all additions and comments.

Using the formula above, you would be shooting at 1/1000, f/8 at ISO 400 in bright sunlight.
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens ... (show quote)


Thank you very much, and wow i love the photos on flickr and smugmug, fantastic work. regards Allan

Reply
 
 
May 26, 2012 04:00:01   #
fergal
 
birdpix wrote:
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens at 1/20 sec. I am including part of a post I did recently regarding shooting backyard birds and sharpness but it will be equally valid with this type of photo:

Factors that contribute to getting sharp pictures. A primer for backyard bird photographers.
There are two major factors that need to be considered in getting sharp photographs: accurate focus and camera or subject movement. Here are a number of things that we can do to assist us in getting accurate focus and things that we can do to minimize the effects of camera or subject movement.
Accurate Focus:
1. We need to learn to control what the camera will focus on. We do this by using “single point Auto Focus”. That is when we use only one of the many AF points available with our camera. When we take the photograph we need to be certain that this AF point is placed on the subject in the area of most critical focus. With birds, we usually use the eye or head as that location. With birds that are not moving or are only moving parallel to our position we can use “One Shot AF”. To do this we place the focus point on the critical area, half press the shutter button to lock the focus, recompose the photo if necessary, then fully press the shutter button to take the picture. We can also use AI Servo-AF if we have a subject that is moving closer to or farther away from us. With this mode, the camera will continue to adjust focus when the subject moves BUT we need to keep the AF point on the area of critical focus.
2. We need to control our aperture in order to achieve appropriate depth of field. Especially with longer focal length lenses, depth of field will be very shallow when we use the widest apertures our lens is capable of. In addition, most lenses are not as sharp when used at either extreme of our f/stop range. We therefore use the middle range of f/stops like f/8 or f/11 which will give us the best compromise between depth of field and sharpness.
Minimizing the effects of camera and subject movement:
1. Shutter speed is the single most important factor in mitigating both camera shake and subject movement. With long lenses, the rule of thumb is that you can hand hold a lens if you are using a shutter speed at least 1 over the focal length. So for a 300mm lens that means shooting at 1/300th sec. That is fine if your bird is perfectly still but birds move, feeders and tree branches can move with a breeze and if your 1/300th shutter speed is not enough to stop that motion your subject will be blurry. For birds, I suggest you double the minimum requirement. In our example of the 300mm lens, we would then need at least 1/600th sec. This rule applies even if we have Image Stabilization in our lens because IS does not help subject motion blur! In fact, I apply this rule even if my camera is on a tripod because, again, the tripod only addresses camera movement not subject movement.

2. Learn to release the shutter gently by rolling your finger across it to first get the half press to initiate focus and then to fully depress it to take the picture. Fire your camera just like you fire a rifle. Take a breath and slowly breathe out as you roll your finger over the shutter button and take the picture. This help minimize camera movement at the instant we take the picture.

3. I advocate using a tripod only for longer, heavier lenses in which case we do not lock the tripod down as we need to be able to move our camera to keep the focus point where we want it on the bird. Because of this need to move the camera the use of mirror lock up or a remote shutter release becomes impractical. When handholding the camera, brace it against something, if possible. A tree, fence post, railing, the arm of a chair, whatever is handy will help. Keep the viewfinder tight to your face, left arm bent with the hand cradling the lens from below, left foot comfortably forward, right foot back, feet at a 90 degree angle, then use your breathing technique along with the rolling motion of the shutter finger to take your shot.


Your basic settings, using a 300mm lens would look like this: 1/600th sec at f/8 at whatever ISO is needed to achieve good exposure. In bright sunlight your ISO will be around 150. If you need to adjust for lighting conditions my preference is to adjust ISO first. Only you know how high your camera will allow you to go before you get too much noise. After ISO adjust aperture and finally f/stop.

These tips are just a basic primer on getting good focus and are geared towards folks trying to take pictures of backyard birds whether they are at a feeder or perched in a tree or bush. More advanced techniques are needed for birds in flight, longer telephoto lenses and extreme distances. Since I own Canon equipment I have used Canon’s terminology. You may have to translate some of that. These are my personal thoughts based on long experience but I don’t claim any special knowledge. I welcome all additions and comments.

Using the formula above, you would be shooting at 1/1000, f/8 at ISO 400 in bright sunlight.
Allanpar: You can't shoot birds with a 500mm lens ... (show quote)


Birdpix - this is a great lesson summary and has helped with some personal leaning - thanks

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May 26, 2012 05:51:36   #
Tylerd Loc: Scotland
 
Thanks from me to Birdpix :)

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May 26, 2012 06:13:12   #
allanpar Loc: Southport, England uk
 
One more question please, should i be shooting in RAW or JPEG? when taking shots of birds

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May 26, 2012 06:33:57   #
saxkiwi Loc: New Zealand
 
It dont make no never mind if you shoot raw or Jpeg it depends on what you want to do with the image. If you want complete control over the manipulation of the photo then shoot in raw but if you just want to be able to do a bit of basic manipulation then jpeg is fine

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