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Oct 23, 2016 22:35:23   #
Earworms Loc: Sacramento, California
 
PNagy wrote:
At least you know what the problem is. A fan can be replaced.
I need to replace the cooling fan, the SuperDrive, the battery and add more RAM. While I'm at it I might as well upgrade the Hard Drive with an SSD.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:06:35   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Earworms wrote:
You cannot just arbitrarily add more and more RAM, you have to make sure that your laptop can actually utilize 16 gigs of RAM. I'd go to the Apple website and check their specs for your particular model. If your laptop can indeed access 16 Gigs, then I'd remove and reinsert the RAM, reseat it, otherwise maybe you do have a hardware problem. Then too, you have to be certain, make sure that your version of Mac OSX can also utilize 16 Gigs of RAM.
Regardless of how slow your computer may be, you should do periodic backups.
You cannot just arbitrarily add more and more RAM,... (show quote)


I did check several sources. They all said that Apple lists the computer at being able to handle only 8gb, but that it takes 16. I also read the testimony of people who said theirs worked well with 16. I am using El Capitan, which runs other Macs with that much RAM. The computer had become totally useless before I added the RAM. It is much better now, but unacceptable, even for personal use, leet alone professional use.

It looks like I will have to attempt to back up, regardless how unlikely it is I will succeed. I am not only concerned about how slow that will be, but that the process will cause the computer totally to lock up, or crash.

I appreciate your advice very much.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:07:52   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Earworms wrote:
Run hardware tests (diagnostics) to determine if all the hardware is running properly, then backup all your files or at least all your important files. Then reformat the drive and reinstall the OS. Start off clean and watch just how fast your computer can be again.


The tests I have done -Mac and MacTuneup- say the hardware is all right. I have defrayed, too, which improved things, but not enough.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:13:19   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
blackest wrote:
It will shut down if left for long enough but it will try to underclock the cpu if it's getting too hot prior to that, personally I'm looking at the third party cleaners and tuneup utilities. Most are at best snake oil, or malware. Apple have the source code to OSX same as Microsoft has the source code for windows. How is a third party supposed to be able to change the way the operating system works without that knowledge?

For all we know he might have a torrent client that also mines for bitcoins on the go. It's almost certainly a software issue.
It will shut down if left for long enough but it w... (show quote)



I looked it up, but failed to understand what a torrent client is.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:29:20   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
PNagy wrote:
That may be what I need to do. I fear, however, that given the way the thing runs, it will either take forever to back things up, and/or repeatedly crash while I am trying. Gotta give it a try, though. Thanks.

How many programs start when you boot the computer? So many programs attach themselves to the startup file that you can have twenty or thirty programs running in the background (idling) that your ram is busy with other functions and slows down.

UPDATE: I just checked my iMac. I currently have 260+ processes loaded, but only 13 are currently using CPU assets and, of those, 11 total <2%.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:53:43   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Mogul wrote:
How many programs start when you boot the computer? So many programs attach themselves to the startup file that you can have twenty or thirty programs running in the background (idling) that your ram is busy with other functions and slows down.

UPDATE: I just checked my iMac. I currently have 260+ processes loaded, but only 13 are currently using CPU assets and, of those, 11 total <2%.



I have had to run only one or two of my own, but am not sure How many the Mac may be running.

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Oct 24, 2016 00:54:34   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
Also try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkxC9SUSw00

Explanation:

http://www.cnet.com/news/kerneltask-taking-up-ram-in-os-x/

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Oct 24, 2016 01:00:35   #
rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA
 
PNagy wrote:
That may be what I need to do. I fear, however, that given the way the thing runs, it will either take forever to back things up, and/or repeatedly crash while I am trying. Gotta give it a try, though. Thanks.


Can you pull the HD out of a Mac and connect it via USB, Thunderbird, or whatever mystical name Apple calls external ports? With a new machine, you'll be starting from scratch, right? So you can copy your data over to the new system.

Mac sure makes it tough.

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Oct 24, 2016 01:17:34   #
BHC Loc: Strawberry Valley, JF, USA
 
PNagy wrote:
I have had to run only one or two of my own, but am not sure How many the Mac may be running.

Click on Finder, Applications; open Utilities folder, run Activity Monitor. If Kernal_Task is greater that 2.5-3.0%, refer to the earlier YouTube video reference I posted. If Idle is lower than 95% with no open programs, you may be losing CPU resources. I just opened two idling Chrome pages and Idle went to 92%. Acceptable! Opening Adobe PSE14 brought Idle to 82%. Still quite acceptable!

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Oct 24, 2016 02:49:40   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 


Thanks; I will. Perhaps even before sleeping.

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Oct 24, 2016 02:50:56   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
rgrenaderphoto wrote:
Can you pull the HD out of a Mac and connect it via USB, Thunderbird, or whatever mystical name Apple calls external ports? With a new machine, you'll be starting from scratch, right? So you can copy your data over to the new system.

Mac sure makes it tough.



I contemplated replacing my own drive, but never having done that, have decided it would be too much risk.

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Oct 24, 2016 02:52:11   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Mogul wrote:
Click on Finder, Applications; open Utilities folder, run Activity Monitor. If Kernal_Task is greater that 2.5-3.0%, refer to the earlier YouTube video reference I posted. If Idle is lower than 95% with no open programs, you may be losing CPU resources. I just opened two idling Chrome pages and Idle went to 92%. Acceptable! Opening Adobe PSE14 brought Idle to 82%. Still quite acceptable!


Thanks. This solution is scheduled for later today.

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Oct 24, 2016 02:57:32   #
PNagy Loc: Missouri City, Texas
 
Mogul: How many programs start when you boot the computer? So many programs attach themselves to the startup file that you can have twenty or thirty programs running in the background (idling) that your ram is busy with other functions and slows down.

UPDATE: I just checked my iMac. I currently have 260+ processes loaded, but only 13 are currently using CPU assets and, of those, 11 total <2%.


Nagy: Early in this unhappy adventure, I set it so none of my programs opens upon start up. Before the problems began, I had Adobe Bridge, Photoshop CS5, OpenOffice, Exachess, and Safari all open. The computer ran much better than it now runs a single program. Video software is where it really fails. I will lose a good video job as a result.

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Oct 24, 2016 06:57:50   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
I found this, which looks safe to try.
--------------------------------------------------
WARNING! This "answer" does address the question, but also goes on to includes a whole lot more information that I hope some people can benefit from.


For many this will be known information. It may help new users, however.

Having TOO MUCH experience with Macs going sluggish, the one thing I do know is that (unfortunately) there can be innumerable causes.

The above answer about Spotlight indexing is indeed one probable culprit. If the Spotlight magnifying glass icon in the very top right of your menu bar contains a small dot that subtly grows and shrinks, then Spotlight is indexing your hard drive (including the contents of each file). But in my experience, Spotlight hasn't exacted a troublesome performance penalty while I continued to browse, email, use Photoshop, Pages, etc.

If you want, you can go to System Preferences–>Spotlight–>Privacy and click the plus symbol at the bottom left of the of the leftmost column. Add your boot drive and any other connected drives. This will stop Spotlight from indexing and consuming your storage I/O, CPU and other system resources.

Then, if you DO want Spotlight to index everything (say, while you're sleeping) do the reverse and highlight each drive in the Privacy column and click the minus sign. Spotlight SHOULD resume, and the magnifying glass should pulsate again. (A shareware utility that allows you to delete the current Spotlight index might not be a bad idea, as Spotlight would after which start fresh and run without interference while you're asleep.)

Spotlight takes a long time the FIRST time it indexes whole volumes, but no noticeable performance change is detectable (to me) after that, as it only incrementally indexes newly created files and data (FAR less indexing that the first run on a whole volume).

Activity Monitor has proven an indispensable tool for seeing all the "invisible" processes that are running and are not apparent to you otherwise. You may be impressed at how much is going on behind-the-scenes with Mac OS X. It REALLY IS "The Most Advanced Desktop Operating System In the World," IMO.

In Activity Monitor, select from the pop up menu to view "All processes, hierarchically."

Then click on the CPU column which sorts all processes according to how much CPU MHz they are using. This sorting method is not perfect as you'll notice daemons or processes running within other processes and showing significant CPU usage, yet might not appear at the top of the sorted list as you'd expect. Also, this is real time, so the processes RAPIDLY hop up and down in the list constantly.

Besides CPU consumption, Activity Monitor shows you how many threads a process is using. A dozen or more threads means the process is allocating to itself a lot of resources. I don't pay attention to memory consumption because it's Virtual Memory and uses hard drive space as Virtual RAM. If you were to add up the total Virtual Memory the apps and processes in Activity Monitor claim to allocate for themselves, you'd think you'd need a terabyte of RAM installed! Virtual Memory works smoothly in the background and needs not your attention. (Thanks Avi, Bertrand, Jordan, et al.) OH! And it's a good idea to leave 15–20% of your boot volume UNUSED. While running, Mac OS X and many apps temporarily "park" code that would otherwise use up your finite RAM. They treat this hard drive space as RAM, albeit slooooooow RAM.

Many programs, like Photoshop, use free drive space as a "scratch disk." That's how you are able to work on a 4GB image file in Photoshop when you have only 2GB of RAM installed!

Viewed in Activity Monitor, an app or process that is using >50% of the CPU should be suspect. (Although some monolithic programs do, and it's normal.)

If you don't need anything to be saved or "remembered" by an app, you can Force Quit it in Activity Monitor (the red octagonal stop sign shaped button – but it's tricky when you try to highlight an app or process that's hopping all over the place at a fraction of a second!).

I've done this before and then relaunched the app to find that it went from 54% CPU usage before to 9% after. So, beforehand the app ran and didn't crash, but a portion of its code might have gotten caught in an infinite loop or something. Quitting and relaunching should fix this.

CLEANING OUT THE ATTIC (AND THE CELLAR)

Even post-Mac OS Classic, a good old fashioned Mac shutdown (not just a restart) can really do wonders. If you select Shut Down from the menu bar and when everything disappears except for the wallpaper, you see the spinner spinning for a while, this is good! Mac OS X is doing some housekeeping, and maybe saving your system configuration, accounting for any and all internal modifications, external devices (hard drives, printers, scanners, third party keyboards, mice, Wacom tablets, etc.) and how they're connected; USB, FireWire, eSATA PCI card, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, etc., creating a cache of Extensions and Kernels it needs to load so it doesn't have to go "fishing" at every startup, updating the bootcacheplaylist, the file system journal, and more.

After shutdown is complete, wait for all internal and external drives to stop spinning and turn off (SILENCE!)

Then hold down the shift key while you press the computer's power on button. Don't let go of the shift key. The Mac will take a little longer to start up than normally, but keep the shift key pressed until you see the Apple logo AND see the spinner start to spin. NOW you can release the shift key.

If you do not have Mac OS X set to "Automatic Login," you will eventually be presented with the login window with the words "Safe Boot" appearing in red above the account names.

WAIT! Don't log in just yet!

You see, all Apple will tell you about "Safe Mode" is that it is a troubleshooting method for when your Mac is all flaky in "full boot" mode.

Apple says Safe Mode does not load any third-party extensions (and even some of Apple's own), nor does it load any Startup Items you have chosen in System Preferences—>Accounts, nor most Menu Bar items.

This is all true, but I came to learn that "Safe Boot" does all kinds of behind-the-scenes repairing and checking and fixing and maintaining and lots of other "Good Stuff."

(But after years searching, no one has been able to tell me exactly what. They say, "Trust me. It's doing Good Stuff.)

I know it ignores the kernelextension cache, forcing the OS to look for and load the essential kernel extensions anew. (If you're still at the login screen, it even checks and repairs the BOOT VOLUME, something Disk Utility or any third-party disk utility can't and refuses to do.)

Under "Safe Boot," when at the login screen, only minimal parts of OS X have been loaded at that point, so Apple's Safe Boot "utility chores" do their work in a basic environment free of hundreds of OS files that get loaded after you log in.

In Safe Boot, I leave it alone at the login screen for 10 minutes or so. I figured out that work was in progress before you log in when I noticed my external drives' activity indicators showed lots of disk activity.

The drive indicators stop after 10 minutes or less.

THEN I log in. AND THEN, I don't touch a thing (not even the keyboard or mouse), as that helpful Good Stuff runs for a few minutes AFTER login, and I don't want to launch programs or even use the keyboard or mouse. I want Safe Boot to be able to perform its duties interference-free.

I go get a cup of coffee or launch App Store on my iPad to check for updates to my apps (something I do even more often than I check macupdate.com on my Mac for new shareware that appears at the top of the day's list every 15 minutes or so!), and I begin actually using the Mac ten or so minutes after logging in.

I usually run some things that alter some of the files in Mac OS X in some way. I launch System Preferences, temporarily change the Energy Saver settings; I disconnect from the Internet and then reconnect; I click "Renew DHCP lease; I launch TextEdit, type some gobbledygook, wait for Autosave to auto save it, then save it myself; I launch Safari and maybe bookmark something; I launch Directory Utility and then quit it; Same for Network Utility, etc.

Then I SHUTDOWN my Mac as opposed to a restart, because shutdown updates some cache files, the bootcacheplaylist and does other things a restart does not. And if the spinner appears and takes a while before my Mac finally shuts down, that's a Good Thing! IDK, but it could be overwriting corrupt preference files with fresh, clean ones and more.

You can always go into the Cache folder in System–>Library and trash some cache files (very recent ones – one's with old dates should probably be left alone). It will only create replacements for these deleted cache files that will be new and clean and up-to-date. You can do the same to cache files with recent dates in Library–>Caches in your home folder. Again, it will only write fresh ones.

Even when my Mac is behaving itself, I boot into Safe Mode every two weeks or so.

Also, you can always hold down Command-s and hit the Mac's power button. Don't let go of Command-s until you see an old school, DOS-looking screen. Let go of the keys at this point. Mac OS X's kernel is all that's loaded at this point, plus some very minimal BSD Unix resources. But "Mac OS X" is hardly loaded at this point. The GUI hasn't even loaded.

When entering this mode, it will print some abridged startup process information, then leave you at a Command Line prompt with a flashing cursor.

Type "/sbin/fsck[space]-fy[Return]." It should look like /sbin/fsck -fy before you press Return. It will do a verify/repair like Disk Utility does, except on your BOOT volume.

If it finishes and says everything's A-OK, but prints "#FILE SYSTEM HAS BEEN MODIFIED" at the end, run the same command again, and again if necessary until it doesn't print the "#FILE SYSTEM HAS BEEN MODIFIED" message anymore. Then you can enter "exit" at the command line to continue startup or enter "shutdown" if you'd rather shutdown and startup instead.

There is a great utility called AppleJack http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/15667/applejack that is a Unix command line utility app that only runs in this textual Single User Mode (it has no GUI.)

Read AppleJack's documentation especially how (all-caps) "AUTO" should be used with great care.

There is also much controversy about Repairing Permissions. Some say it's a good thing to do; some say it's not, and that apps change original file permission settings all the time, and it's not necessarily a bad thing or abnormal.

Finally, indispensable tools in my utility "Tool Box" include the free shareware "Onyx" utility http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/11582/onyx, TechTool Pro 6, Drive Genius 3, the venerable DiskWarrior 4 and Data Rescue 3 (and maybe Data Rescue PC if you've installed Windows on your Mac via Bootcamp).

Just two of TechTool's many features are the ability to create a small partition on your boot drive (or any drive) that creates an Emergency Disk you can boot into if your boot drive needs repair. (Most utilities will not or cannot repair the startup drive. TechTool's Emergency disk partition solves this.)

Second, TechTool lets you choose to install a preference pane that does a periodic drive S.M.A.R.T. check, backs up your precious Disk Directory (on any drive). If the Disk Directory gets erased or is too corrupt for DiskWarrior to repair, you're screwed – except for maybe a Mac OS X "Archive and Install."

The Disk Directory is a HUUUUUUUUGE file, so backing it up takes a lot of time and space. I have it set so that the Directory backups of all my drives are stored in separate folders on a drive I use for long-term data storage (archived photos, old documents I need to keep, old tax documents I need to hang onto for 7 years, etc.). I also set it to do this backup after beddy-bye time.

Fortunately, this TechTool preference pane in totally customizable for each task it performs. You can perform Directory backups once a week or once an hour, you can set it to perform a S.M.A.R.T. check every day or every hour. You can tell it to alert you and/or email you if a S.M.A.R.T check fails.

Most useful (to me) is that you can set a threshold for how much space on your hard drive you want to leave free (for the aforementioned reasons), like 15%, 20%, and have TechTool alert you when you're approaching the threshold you've customized.

Then it's time to archive some files you need to hang on to, but don't access frequently, transferring them off your main drive.

P.S. Use an automatic backup utility and make sure Journaling is turned ON for all drives. (You can check, as well as turn it on for each drive in Disk Utility.)
-------------
See if any of it makes a difference the safe boot is well worth trying, OSX caches some startup files for faster booting if that cache gets corrupted then funny things can happen

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Oct 24, 2016 07:05:01   #
whitewolfowner
 
PNagy wrote:
About two months ago my Mac PowerBook 17 (early 2011) began to slow down very badly whatever I asked it to do. Soon it started informing me that I was out of disc space, even though I had over 250 GB left on my hard drive.

The action I took made it better, but not good, or even acceptable. I replaced the four GB of RAM with 16, and upgraded the OS to El Capitan. Some of the software runs worse on El Capitan than it did on Lion, but nothing runs well. It takes forever to load most internet pages. Photoshop is way too slow. IMovie stalls forever on most tasks, and crashes often.

My Apple and MacTuneup utilities tell me there is nothing wrong with my hard drive. I have two photo jobs, a video job, and a writing job that are past due. Only Microsoft Word works well enough to use in any business setting. The only thing I can think of, short of ditching this computer, is to replace the hard drive with a solid state one. I would appreciate informed ideas on what might be the problem, and how to proceed against it.
About two months ago my Mac PowerBook 17 (early 20... (show quote)




You have changed or added to everything but the right thing. You need a larger drive. Check with apple or OWC to see if an SSD would benefit you to justify the cost. I recommend the WD black 750GB drive. Get it from B & H; they have a good price on it.

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