Will someone please explain this to me
Jul 7, 2016 08:25:55 #
Why do proponents of stricter gun control, think that Laws will stop law breakers from following those laws? Law breakers (criminals) do not pay attention to laws. I know that this is a rhetorical (Sort of) question. But why do politicians and others believe that laws stop law breakers? Yeah I know that we need laws. But laws prevent law abiders from committing crimes. And without those laws there would be anarchy. I know all that. but the question remains.
Jul 7, 2016 08:35:57 #
Excellent question, but you'll never get a straight answer from the gun-grabbers. No one ever does.
Jul 7, 2016 08:36:35 #
Many of them do know better. But you get rewarded in the political world for action, not for results.
Dealing with the actual causes of problems is much more difficult and often takes effort, time, and money. Politicians don't like the first two and keep the money for themselves.
So far better to punish the innocent and uninvolved and claim victory.
This is also the reason for the ongoing march towards socialism. It has never worked to enhance the lives of average people but politicians are always able to get elected by promising free stuff. There never is free stuff for the working class but the politicians amass millions.
Dealing with the actual causes of problems is much more difficult and often takes effort, time, and money. Politicians don't like the first two and keep the money for themselves.
So far better to punish the innocent and uninvolved and claim victory.
This is also the reason for the ongoing march towards socialism. It has never worked to enhance the lives of average people but politicians are always able to get elected by promising free stuff. There never is free stuff for the working class but the politicians amass millions.
Jul 7, 2016 09:07:42 #
Why do we pay for our "lawmakers" to perpetually create new laws when many of the old are not enforced? Why? Because it gives some a warm feeling like they're doing something. Kind of like peeing your pants in cold weather to get a warm feeling,but eventually some find out they had the wrong approach...
Jul 7, 2016 09:44:20 #
If your philosophy is that lawbreakers will not obey laws then the question should be why do we have any laws at all.
The law itself is not a deterrent. However, studies have shown that the certainty of punishment is. That is one of the reasons there was a dramatic drop in violent crime in NYC. They didn't change the gun laws, they simply made it a mandatory three years in prison for the illegal possession of a concealed weapon. When this happened, people who routinely carried an illegal firearm stopped doing that. Without the ready availability of the weapon on their person, the incidents of shootings dropped.
So in answer to your question before the far right begins insulting me, I can tell you that simply having the law will not help. But, having the law and appropriate punishment will.
The law itself is not a deterrent. However, studies have shown that the certainty of punishment is. That is one of the reasons there was a dramatic drop in violent crime in NYC. They didn't change the gun laws, they simply made it a mandatory three years in prison for the illegal possession of a concealed weapon. When this happened, people who routinely carried an illegal firearm stopped doing that. Without the ready availability of the weapon on their person, the incidents of shootings dropped.
So in answer to your question before the far right begins insulting me, I can tell you that simply having the law will not help. But, having the law and appropriate punishment will.
Jul 7, 2016 09:48:57 #
Too often the "appropriate punishment" is plea bargained down or for whatever reason is not administered.
Jul 7, 2016 10:14:45 #
DaveO wrote:
Too often the "appropriate punishment" is plea bargained down or for whatever reason is not administered.
True, but that was prohibited in the NYC Courts for weapons possession.
Jul 7, 2016 10:20:24 #
Frank T wrote:
If your philosophy is that lawbreakers will not ob... (show quote)
You might note that this article doesn't even mention the law change as a possible causal factor.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-violence-chicago-new-york-los-angeles-met-20150918-story.html
They are instead doing the long term hard work that actually leads to results. Politicians hate doing such things...but will take credit for the results.
The only one who mentions gun laws is the failing guy in Chicago.
Jul 7, 2016 10:21:21 #
Frank T wrote:
True, but that was prohibited in the NYC Courts for weapons possession.
My point being that there seems to be a perception that quite often even reasonable sentences are reduced or suspended. It is not my determination of what reasonable means,it is spelled out in the penal code.
I'm certain that many of us can site examples of lax penalties or probation for serious crimes.
Jul 7, 2016 10:26:08 #
DaveO wrote:
My point being that there seems to be a perception that quite often even reasonable sentences are reduced or suspended. It is not my determination of what reasonable means,it is spelled out in the penal code.
I'm certain that many of us can site examples of lax penalties or probation for serious crimes.
I'm certain that many of us can site examples of lax penalties or probation for serious crimes.
The U.S. Leads the world in per-capita jailing of citizens. Studies consistently show more people in jail does not reduce crime. But actual facts don't affect politicians.
There is no causal relation between gun laws and this:
http://www.trbimg.com/img-55fb7cb4/turbine/ct-homicides-chicago-new-york-los-angeles-20150918/700/700x394
It is from better policing.
Jul 7, 2016 10:35:07 #
MtnMan wrote:
The U.S. Leads the world in per-capita jailing of citizens. Studies consistently show more people in jail does not reduce crime. But actual facts don't affect politicians.
I understand. What I'm whining about is people being arrested for serious crimes and essentially receiving some watered down penalty.
Example: a woman on the street next to me was arrested for drug trafficking,pulled over in her vehicle with drugs during the investigation. She received a suspended 3 year sentence for possession and two years probation. Pretty harsh,huh? A real determent....
Tons of similar cases,so let's make some more laws.
Jul 7, 2016 12:53:09 #
DaveO wrote:
I understand. What I'm whining about is people being arrested for serious crimes and essentially receiving some watered down penalty.
Example: a woman on the street next to me was arrested for drug trafficking,pulled over in her vehicle with drugs during the investigation. She received a suspended 3 year sentence for possession and two years probation. Pretty harsh,huh? A real determent....
Tons of similar cases,so let's make some more laws.
Example: a woman on the street next to me was arrested for drug trafficking,pulled over in her vehicle with drugs during the investigation. She received a suspended 3 year sentence for possession and two years probation. Pretty harsh,huh? A real determent....
Tons of similar cases,so let's make some more laws.
More laws to not enforce. Yes!
All studies show incarceration does not deter crime. It encourages it because jails are crime universities.
Perhaps if the Obama administration enforced existing gun laws we could see if they work. Thousands have been caught lying on the background check: a federal crime. Only a handfull have been charged out of tens of thousands.
https://www.thetrace.org/2016/05/lie-and-try-policy-failed-gun-background-checks/
Reducing crime takes efforts like LA and NYC put forth, plus real job opportunities. People with good jobs do less crime.
There is a simple thing that could be done that would go a long way on private sales: make the system accessible for free to all private sellers. Many would use it. I'd bet most gun shows would then require it of patrons. But no, that's too easy. States with laws that require it want private sellers to go through licensed gun dealers with high fees (and hassle).
I know one study in NYC said a large percentage of private sellers wouldn't use it but I'd like to see it tested.
Jul 7, 2016 12:59:44 #
Yes,if the administrations of the past 30 or so years in particular had been creating and enforcing effetive laws,we would probably be much better off. In spite of ourselves,we will survive!
Jul 7, 2016 13:07:07 #
DaveO wrote:
Yes,if the administrations of the past 30 or so years in particular had been creating and enforcing effetive laws,we would probably be much better off. In spite of ourselves,we will survive!
Always keeping in mind that, by definition, criminals do not obey laws.
Jul 7, 2016 13:17:42 #
MtnMan wrote:
Always keeping in mind that, by definition, criminals do not obey laws.
LOL!!
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