Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

Here is what common sense should tell you:

1. In a dark and loud bar (like Orlando) even someone trained in close quarters combat will probably end up doing far more damage than good. And if there is more than one good guy, they are just as likely to shoot each other and far more likely to shoot the innocent that they are to fulfill their hero fantasies.

2. Most people packing today are not trained in close quarters combat or how to respond to an active shooter. In fact, from what I can tell, most people packing today have no training at all and are just idiots. With guns.

3. Bad guys and good guys are impossible to tell apart in real life, unlike video games. When law enforcement does show up, how will they know the difference? Hint--thats an easy question and easy to answer. They won't be able to tell the difference. Guess what happens next?

4. The chances of any single person actually being in that situation ae so remote that the odds against it are almost incalculable. But carrying loaded weapons "just in case" is foolish. And if that is the reason one is carrying, and if said person has not been through countless hours of real, disciplined training (not running around in the woods with his militia buddies) then one is a danger to both himself and everyone around him.

Thats common sense based in the real world. I prefer that to "common sense" based in hero fantasies.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

So Bazbo, do you have a carry permit?

jsvend Loc: Indiana

In 2007, former cop and volunteer security worker, Jeanne Assam, saved the day at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Thousands of people were exiting from Sunday mass that day as the shooter opened fire. However, Assam ran toward the line of fire, killing the shooter and saving countless lives.

Alton Nolen of Moore, Okla., was charged with first-degree murder in the gruesome beheading of a Vaughan Foods worker. His rampage was halted by Mark Vaughan, a reserve sheriff’s deputy and the company’s chief operating officer, who used his personal firearm to wound Nolen.

In Garland, Texas, two gunmen opened fire outside of a Prophet Mohammed cartoon drawing contest in 2015. The swift reaction by security at the event prevented all but the two attackers from being killed.

In 2013, a shooter opened fire at Prince Middle School in Atlanta, Georgia. However, after wounding only one student, the suspect was disarmed by an armed guard who was stationed at the school.

An 18¬-year-¬old mother saved the life of herself and her baby in Blanchard, Oklahoma. There, a knife-wielding intruder was attempting to enter Sarah McKinley's mobile home shortly after her husband died of lung cancer in 2012. After breaking in, McKinley fired, killing one suspect and scaring the other intruder off.

A 71¬-year-¬old man saved the lives of many at an internet cafe in Florida in 2012. When robbers entered the cafe with weapons, Samuel Williams pulled out his gun and scared off the suspects.

A 69¬-year-¬old grandmother protected herself and her home in Alabama in 2010. After hearing a burglar break into her house, Ethel Jones fired three shots, wounding and scaring off the intruder, who was later arrested by police.

In 2012, a 14-¬year-¬old boy saved himself and his younger siblings after an armed intruder entered their home. After breaking into the home and pointing a gun at the 14, 12, and 8-year-olds, the 14--year-¬old fired, placing the intruder in the hospital and saving his family.

A pregnant mother of two saved herself and her children after two intruders entered her home in Ashtabula, Ohio. After refusing to let the two intruders in, they broke down her back door. As they proceeded up her stairs, the shot at them, hitting one intruder and scaring them both off until police arrived.

A would¬-be robber was shot in 2006 by an employee at Media Madhouse in Indiana. After the suspect entered the building holding a gun on an employee and demanding money, a second employee jumped into action and shot the suspect, saving both employees and customers.

72-¬year-¬old Jan Cooper saved her life and the life of her 85-¬year-¬old World War II veteran husband, who is confined to a wheelchair. In 2013, a man was breaking into the Cooper's Southern California home, when the grandmother fired one shot from her .357 ¬Magnum Smith and Wesson revolver, which scared the burglar off.

Keenan Loc: Central Coast California

If you're looking for common sense, you're at the wrong place. Irrationality and upside down logic rules the day here. You should have taken that left turn at Albuquerque.

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

The article was an essay and not data analysis. Not to say that the analysis does not exist. You can start here:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/september/fbi-releases-study-on-active-shooter-incidents/pdfs/a-study-of-active-shooter-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

The good guy with a gun coming to the rescue is extremely rare. Its been a while since I read the report, but if memory serves, this report only cites one time where a regular joe with a gun saved the day (there were a few stopped by off duty cops or trained security guards which i don't count as 'regular joes with guns"). Mostly these things stop when the shooter decides to stop (surrender or suicide) or by an exchange of gunfire with law enforcement.

Any active shooter training will instruct you that the proper response, in this order is:
1. Flee
2. Hide
3. Fight but only as an absolute last resort.

I have been through several of these trainings and no instructor that I ever had told us to be sure to bring a gun or if you have a gun the preferred first response is to shoot back. For reasons I have previously discussed in other responses.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

The vast majority of police never fire a gun during their career except on the range. And sadly the vast majority of police show almost zero "fire discipline". They usually don't have a clear command structure in quick response situations and since each of them thinks of him or herself as more or less alone they all tend to fire instead of only one or two designated shooters. And since for most people the hormone surge usually makes time appear to crawl and the police like others are trained to shoot until the threat is stopped they keep firing because the bad guy hasn't dropped. (bodies don't fly backwards when shot with hand guns like in TV and the movies of the past) Later it often is found the actual shooting was in just a few seconds. The bad guy literally hasn't had time to fall, gravity is not instantaneous. And all the officers were so concentrated on the bad guy and their own gun they often did not realize that they weren't the only ones firing and did not know how many shots they fired until the gun was empty.

You have to click show quote to see most of my individual answers for some reason.

Keenan Loc: Central Coast California

Bazbo: 1. In a dark and loud bar (like Orlando) even someone trained in close quarters combat will probably end up doing far more damage than good. And if there is more than one good guy, they are just as likely to shoot each other and far more likely to shoot the innocent that they are to fulfill their hero fantasies.

robertjerl: And what study by someone who knows guns and their defensive use do you get this from?

Keenan: Do you really need a study for that point? I thought it was common sense. Think about it. A dark bar full of people, a live shooter, people running, chaos, the situation changing by the second, and some "hero" pull out a gun and starts shooting, adding to the confusion, and you don't think that the most probable outcome is more innocent people getting shot? Seriously???

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Many things that most people consider common sense turn out to be wrong.

I long ago learned some rules:
1. all guns are loaded
2. never point a loaded gun at anything you aren't prepared to shoot
3. never shoot until you have a cleared and ID'd target
4. never shoot anything you don't intend to kill or destroy, if the bad guy lives that is his good luck

Well in the Army we had the concepts of cover fire, recon by fire and suppressive fire. Those are a whole different kettle of fish.

I am fine with the idea that a CCW comes with the obligation to go to training and regular refreshers. Just give me the CCW and I will gladly train and even sign up as a police auxiliary. My armed guard license specified that I was at the call of any sworn law enforcement officer to aid or act as his backup.

bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.

every month the nra magazine prints a dozen examples of joe or joan average successfully defending themselves with their gun.

Bobbee

richosob Loc: Lambertville, MI

I have read many articles that were basically the same scenario as the one you posted. This is the main reason that people buy a gun, to protect their family in case of a break in. I bought my gun for this same reason.

Rich

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

You liberals have your own definition of "Good guy with a gun"
In an effort to make a smug attack on the conservative position that the best way to fight a bad guy with a gun is a good guy, an NBC producer tweeted that the failed assassin who tried to murder Donald Trump could be considered a “good guy with a gun.”

Matt Mowrer, an associate producer for NBC Universal since 2014, tweeted late Tuesday night that anyone who kills the Republican nominee is considered deserves the same praise as someone who tries to stop a mass killing.
So take your phoney liberal tripe and stick it.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

For once we agree, there is far too much liberal propaganda (logic if you will) on this site.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

Those are good common sense steps to follow, however those folks who have spent some time in a foreign country confronting armed people who want to shoot them, just may have a little more experience than the average shopper, and have the experience of when to shoot back and when to hide.

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

And just how much night combat experience do you have, Mr firearms expert?