Good Guy With a Gun Myth Exposed: By a surprising source.

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

By a surprising source.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/06/trump_exposes_the_nra_fantasy_of_a_good_guy_with_a_gun.html

Wellhiem Loc: Sunny England.

Bazbo wrote:

By a surprising source.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/06/trump_exposes_the_nra_fantasy_of_a_good_guy_with_a_gun.html

Has a bad guy with a gun, ever been stopped by a good untrained guy with a gun.

idaholover Loc: Nampa ID

Bazbo wrote:

By a surprising source.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/06/trump_exposes_the_nra_fantasy_of_a_good_guy_with_a_gun.html

Nice try...
http://wonkette.com/403896/liberal-slatecom-staff-admits-they-are-all-in-the-tank-several-times-over

Or are you just tying to make the case that a good guy cannot own or use a gun?

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Wellhiem wrote:

Has a bad guy with a gun, ever been stopped by a good untrained guy with a gun.

Yes, but usually, all other things being equal the training and/or skill wins out. Of course there is also numbers, bad/good luck, Murphy's Law etc.
I worked in a major gang and gang shooting area most of my teaching career. A standard sorta sick joke was that all the gang banger types should be required to go to shooting lessons with the Jr ROTC so when they did their shootings they would hit each other instead of someone's grandmother knitting on the front porch down the block.

Veteran's of Iran and Afghanistan tell me the majority of the jihad types are such poor shots that you are fairly safe from the one shooting at you. It was the bullets addressed "to whom it may concern" that you needed to worry about. It was mostly that way in Vietnam also.

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

idaholover wrote:

Nice try...
http://wonkette.com/403896/liberal-slatecom-staff-admits-they-are-all-in-the-tank-several-times-over

Or are you just tying to make the case that a good guy cannot own or use a gun?

No. The case I am making (one that I have argued here before) is that the good guy with a gun idea is just a fantasy that in most cases just falls apart when the shit hits the fan.

There are cases where it worked, but those cases are so rare that it cannot logically counter the overwhelming data and common sense that tells us that good guys with guns are not only not effective, but most cases they will make the situation far more dangerous. There was a good guy with a gun in Orlando, one with some actual training being an off duty cop and all. Didn't seem to help.

Keep your guns. I have never been anti gun. What I am is anti stupidity and anti childish fantasy which is the core of this good guy with a gun myth. Anyone packing and under the illusion that a situation will develop around him/her that will allow him/her to emerge from the chaos as the one who saves the day is a fool. No one is a hero in their own private FPS video game.

WNYShooter Loc: WNY

Bazbo wrote:

No. The case I am making (one that I have argued here before) is that the good guy with a gun idea is just a fantasy that in most cases just falls apart when the shit hits the fan.

Your supposition completely falls apart when one takes into account that you are applying a hypothetical response/reaction to a hypothetical situation.

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

WNYShooter wrote:

Your supposition completely falls apart when one takes into account that you are applying a hypothetical response/reaction to a hypothetical situation.

Isn't that exactly what the good guy with a gun myth does? I am arguing against a hypothetical with a hypothetical. That seems in bounds.

The difference is that my hypothetical is supported by data and common sense, unlike the good guy with a gun myth.

Would you like to remind again which argument falls apart?

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

I don't know there are several videos online of good guys with guns stopping armed robberies... just sayin.

FlyingTiger Loc: Tortola, BVI

Wellhiem wrote:

Has a bad guy with a gun, ever been stopped by a good untrained guy with a gun.

Absolutely, it happens every day.

WNYShooter Loc: WNY

Bazbo wrote:

Isn't that exactly what the good guy with a gun myth does? I am arguing against a hypothetical with a hypothetical. That seems in bounds.

The difference is that my hypothetical is supported by data and common sense, unlike the good guy with a gun myth.

Would you like to remind again which argument falls apart?

Common sense CLEARLY says that if a bad guy is shooting at a good guy, and the good guy has no gun, the good guy has a slim chance of living, but a good guy with a gun to fight back with, at least has a chance. Also, you must keep in mind, every scenario presents it's own unique set of circumstances which will ultimately dictate the outcome, but arguing that being unarmed is universally the best way to handle all, that just completely defies common sense, and data fully supports that as well.

lightcatcher Loc: Farmington, NM (4 corners)

WNYShooter wrote:

Common sense CLEARLY says that if a bad guy is shooting at a good guy, and the good guy has no gun, the good guy has a slim chance of living, but a good guy with a gun to fight back with, at least has a chance. Also, you must keep in mind, every scenario presents it's own unique set of circumstances which will ultimately dictate the outcome, but arguing that being unarmed is universally the best way to handle all, that just completely defies common sense, and data fully supports that as well.

I would rather die fighting then die without fighting.

jsvend Loc: Indiana

Wellhiem wrote:

Has a bad guy with a gun, ever been stopped by a good untrained guy with a gun.

Yes!!

Bazbo Loc: Lisboa, Portugal

Blurryeyed wrote:

I don't know there are several videos online of good guys with guns stopping armed robberies... just sayin.

I previously stipulated that it happens from time to time. But anecdotes do not overturn the massive amount of data to the contrary...unless ideology is ore important to you than data.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

lightcatcher wrote:

I would rather die fighting then die without fighting.

Years ago in one of the smaller cities of Los Angeles County two thugs did a home invasion. The father/grandfather grabs a gun and shot it out with them, he was hit and went down, his last shot killed one of them and the other ran.
Later as the paramedics were working on him he came to enough to ask if his family was all right and how bad his wound was. The answer was they are all fine he had killed one and driven off the other, but he was in very bad shape. Then he said "Then its all good." and he died with a smile on his face.
The news reporter interviewing the family was having a fit over the waste of his life until a family member who hadn't been there and was a combat veteran cut her off and explained that his father risked his life deliberately to protect his family and that is why he said "Then its all good." and smiled as he died. He had achieved his number one goal, save his family.
Everyone has to die, he saved his family with his death, that is a pretty good way to go in the circumstances.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Bazbo wrote:

I previously stipulated that it happens from time to time. But anecdotes do not overturn the massive amount of data to the contrary...unless ideology is ore important to you than data.

I am not really comfortable being around a bunch of gun packing people, I don't think that I would enjoy a trip out shopping where everyone had a gun holstered to their side.... But at the same time if I were in an active shooter situation I would hope that there were a few people among the group being victimized that not only had guns, but knew how to use them if and when an opportunity presented itself....

I don't think that I am so uncomfortable knowing that there are CCPs around me, its those that have to make the statement that seem to concern me.

Reading through your article I did not see any stats, did I miss something?