UXOEOD

Our fellow UHH'er, SharpShooter, said "Most nature shooters don't know anything about composition".

Okay fellow nature photographers, what do you say. Is Sharpshooter correct?

ken hubert Loc: Missouri

SS is full of himself, as usual

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

"MOST" is a dangerous word, but SS MAY be right ! - But, It's not so much ignorance as it is laziness - IMO. "Most" seem content to sit with a large lens on a gimbal/tripod and not move around to get the best fore grounds/back rounds.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Ooohhhh, UX, I may be full of myself, but this responce comes from one of the most respected and experienced bird shooters here on the Hog!!!
Take THAT, UX!!!
SS

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Not that we don't know composition, it is just that birds and other critters don't take direction very well. In spite of stalking and slinking around you often have to shoot on a "what you see is what you get basis" and it may be moving off at a high rate of speed.

If you don't frame real tight you can often crop to make the composition look better, but that causes an IQ loss.

If you have spent what feels like a couple of eons trying to get pictures of a "left winged widget bird" and you get a chance you are not likely to say "Nope, no good, branches in the way, background is too busy, the light is from the wrong direction and the bird will look like it is leaving the frame, I won't shoot!" You will take the shot, often on burst and track that bird until it ducks into dense jungle or what ever.

And for the birders among us, the south end of a north bound bird is still a "record" shot so you can add it to your lifetime list.

Now if I run into Bigfoot, he/she understands English, is not hostile and will take direction if paid in Snickers, energy bars and gatorade, well then we will try for some "proper" composition.

BebuLamar

What else can you expect from a sharp shooter besides................

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Define nature photographers - please.

There are landscape guys, wildlife guys, interpretive, contemplative and abstract guys - the comment borders on the absurd, since each discipline has different criteria for acceptability. A good birder is going to go in for the correct pose, free of interfering branches, or if in flight, proper wing position and shape. A landscape guy is going to be a bit more classical in approach, and the contempative/abstract guys - well, all rules of composition are there to be broken. My favorite Edward Weston quote - "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." I don't care who the birder guy is, I think Weston hit the nail on the head.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Your response is perfect!

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

For the record, I DO agree with all of this also ...

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Mastery of fine photographic composition requires artistic talent that is usually inborn to a certain degree but also requires study, observation,and practice. A photographer who has a command over his or her compositional savvy can apply this talent and skill even under difficult or fleeting shooting conditions- it kinda comes naturally after a while. Sure, there are next to impossible situations where "capturing" an image of a wild animal or bird, a split-sports event, a fleeting expression at a wedding or a "spot-news" event where artistry becomes secondary to just documenting the subject matter and telling the story. In many instances, however,I have seen photographs with a great degree compositional value that were made under very difficult scenarios such a documentary work done in war zones under combat circumstances. Oftentimes, its just little nuances of how the frame was filled- perhaps just a slight difference or shift in point of view that makes all the difference.

For the most part, I believe artistic talent is a natural inborn thing but there are also many geometric, mathematical and rule-like principles that go into the study of composition. Perhaps it can be a learned skill or the principles can be used to develop or hone one's talents. There is the rule of thirds, the Euclid Elements, The Golden Ratio, The Fibonacci Sequence, and the theory of Dynamic Symmetry and much more. This stuff is difficult to teach and I suppose one can draw up some diagrams but in my own case, I usually work backward from what I SEE as good composition and sometimes find that what I have done kinda fits into some of these theories.

Besides the placement of subjects in an artist or impactful manner, the areas of tonality, color, contrast, texture, line and form also have to do with the total composition of an image. In many cases, the composition is what tells the story and can even ALTER the story- it all has to do with emphasis and point of view!

To say or make a blanket statement that ALL photographers of any ilk or specialty "have no sense of composition" seems rather unfair- I would think that should be judged on a case to cases basis. Not every good photographer will have the same approach to composition and some shooters just want to have a picture of a woodpecker, a moose, a mountain or a tree, or grandma at a wedding reception- well- just for the record and have no artistic intentions. Takes all kinds! We are all entitled to our opinions!

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

Sometimes you just gotta take what you can get.

MadMikeOne Loc: So. NJ Shore - a bit west of Atlantic City

Well said. My thoughts and experience exactly. And I shoot BOW & BIF hand-held. I'm way too klutzy to try to use a tripod with those buggers.

davefales Loc: Virginia

davefales Loc: Virginia

This is what I was agreeing with.


I'm sure photographers who can sit quietly for weeks or years have a better chance of nice composition.

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I disagree.

In landscape photography, composition is #1 priority when setting up a shot, and something landscape photographers learn to master early on so that their images can be effective. The same is true with those who specialize in architectural photography.

In contrast, wildlife photographers (particularly bird photographers) are often so obsessed with subject sharpness and making the "capture", that composition becomes low priority, if not sometimes ignored altogether. They simply have less of an incentive to fully understand composition techniques as will the landscape photographer.

SharpShooter likes to provoke to get attention, even if it makes little sense.