bigwolf40 Loc: Effort, Pa.

Yes you have and these are nice. I grew up in Dumont and then after the service I lived in Lodi, Little Ferry, Hasbrouck Heights. Worked at the Fire Side Inn in Rochelle Park and then moved to here 30 years ago. Just in case you might be interested I thought I would mentioned this to you....Rich

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

It's great that you've been a pro for a long time and have made a living at it, but I have to disagree. There's a fine line separating the marketplace who doesn't question your pricing and the swirling waters of a marketplace where quality isn't nearly as important as price. The keyword in society these days is "CHEAP." How cheap can I get it done? How cheap are the prints? What's the cheapest package he/she has?

I was in retail for 40 years, my last stint having my own musical instrument stores for 7 years. Every day I heard such things as:

Mother: "How much are reeds for my child's clarinet? Me: $2.12 for her teacher's recommended brand and thickness. Mother: "Do you have anything cheaper?" She is ignoring the teacher's recommendation for CHEAP.

Father: "My son has decided he wants to TRY being in band. I don't think he has any talent. How much DO I HAVE TO PAY?" Me: $25 a month for a brand new one made in the U.S.A. with all repairs and maintenance included so it works perfectly all the time. First month free. No contract in case he loses interest." Father #1 smashing the son's artistic inclinations on the spot again: "Oh no, I'm not going to pay that much. He can just be in sports instead." Father #2: "Oh no, I'm not going to pay by the month. I can buy exactly the same thing (actually a Chinese knockoff piece of crap that doesn't work right out of the box) on eBay for $179." They are ignoring all the value added bonuses and U.S.A. quality for CHEAP.

Mother: "I want to get my 10 year old a guitar for Christmas. Not one of those irritating electric ones but a nice sounding 'Spanish' one (actually not Spanish but just acoustic). Me: "Here's a nice one that's easy to play for $79. I'll restring it for you with very light strings so they're easy to press down and won't hurt her fingers. We adjust and fix it for you for a year after purchase. We also have lessons here every day." Mother: "Don't you have anything CHEAPER? They're $48.88 at WalMart." Me: "That's a First Act and they usually come out of the box with a twisted neck that doesn't have a steel rod in it and they can't be fixed. If you want your child to stick with guitar she has to not hurt her fingers while playing." Mother: "Well, I'm not going to spend $80 on a guitar when I can get one for $48." Ignoring quality and the future musical hopes of her child for CHEAP.

In every case CHEAP is the key. Same with photography. Mother #1 wants the very best artistic shots of her newborn that any human has ever seen and will pay $500+ for a session every 6 months. Mother #2 finds a guy who set up a studio in his garage, shot his own child there for samples to show, and he charges $250 for what the mother thinks is the same quality but she has no taste and doesn't know any better. The CHEAP guy gets the gig. Mother #3 learns of the $250 guy from Mother #2 and also finds out her Uncle got a new camera for Christmas. She talks to Uncle Ernie and he says he'll "do a shoot" of her baby for $100 just to get some experience. He goes on UHH to find out what settings to use on his camera for his "first professional shoot." He sets up a bunch of bare CFL bulbs, a folding card table with a blanket on it, and a sheet of drywall leaned against some boxes behind the table. Mother #3 is so thrilled to see her baby on a computer screen and in print, she's happy and starts telling people about Uncle Ernie and how wonderful he is.

End result, the $500 photographer gets one shoot, the $250 guy gets 3 or 4 shoots, and Uncle Ernie is so busy he can't keep up at $100. CHEAP rules in today's marketplace because most people can't tell the difference, most people aren't wealthy enough to have the best baby photographer in town, and those who do have money to have the best will still have the husband put the clamps on the mother's "squandering" of his income by finding somebody CHEAPER.

I have a friend here in town who has experienced this. He was $500 for the best baby photography I've ever seen plus prints at fairly high prices. He averaged about $1000 per baby session and people always came back every year and had him to multi-generational family get-togethers too. He also did weddings at $1800 to $2500 EVERY week of the wedding season without fail. Highly in demand, excellent work, top notch Photoshop skills. So much work he could barely keep up and his wife did some of the Photoshop, ran the business office and their storefront. That was 2008.

By 2012 he was being blown out of weddings by amateurs charging $800 who guaranteed they'd take 1500 still photos and hand ALL of them over to the bride and groom. And that's what they do. Took the shots, put them all on a CD or DVD, did no editing of anything, and the bride and groom go somewhere to get their own prints made. Lame...

Several stay-at-home Moms in the area fired up baby photography studios in their homes and brag about being Moms of babies themselves, which new Moms gravitate toward.

My friend's baby photography business dropped in half. He had to close his storefront and move his studio into his refurbished 3-car garage. He bought 6 DJ systems, and booked himself for weddings on nights he wasn't shooting a wedding and had 5 other guys running the other 5 DJ systems to keep the bills paid. He took up doing promotional pro-quality performance videos of regional bands.

In other words, a true professional was dragged down into the muddy swirl of mediocre to outright bad beginner startups and has to fight to stay alive now because potential clients walk in with CHEAP on their minds and many walk OUT again if CHEAP isn't what they find.

I know this was meant to be a humorous thread but it's actually a serious subject too.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Cheap! Well, I do agree that some folks are always seeking out the lowest prices with no regard for quality or service. Some people are dyed-in-the-wool bargain hunters and will not buy anything unless they think the have “stolen it”! I certainly, however, don't agree with the notion that every potential customer fits this description- many people are motivated to buy for many other reasons. There are still people who make important purchases based on quality results, the longevity of the product in style and workmanship, pride of ownership, perhaps a bit of “snob appeal” and some folks will buy what they perceive as the best because of its high price. People with “eyes in their heads” who appreciate art and design will tend to buy superior photography. Some customers go where they sense sincere and personalized service and enthusiasm on the part of the photographer and his or her staff.

Good and excellent photographers who, sadly enough, fail in business, may have promoted their work inadequately, under-priced their services and/or were appealing to the wrong market, that is, a segment of the population who simply can't afford their prices. Theses problems can apply to any business. Not every potential client is an aficionado of fine photography and will simply go for the lowest price, however, this approach oftentimes leads to disappointment and customer dissatisfaction. Even well-to-do folks can buy cheap because they don't know any better!

Funny, that you alluded to the retail music business! I am an AMATEUR musician- I started off with the accordion and I like all kinds of keyboard instruments. I never went in for cheap instruments simply because good instruments tend to inspire younger students to practice with more stick-to-itiveness. If the darn instrument sounds like an organ-grinder's crank box, easily goes out of tune, or is hard on the ears; this discourages many students. When the student knows that the instrument itself has great potential in sound, this encourages their desire to master the technique. I am not suggesting that the instrument automatically makes for good musicians but it sure helps to encourage them. Just like good cameras don't automatically make for great photographers but again, good equipment does help to achieve better results. No matter how one looks at things, talent rises above all so, as photographers, we need to promote our talents and educate the public about the nuances, features, and services that they are really buying into when they go through the process of selecting a professional photographer- not just buying based on prices and sizes the way they buy photofinishing services.

Professional photography, for the most part, is a luxury commodity and like all other luxury-oriented business, viability, success and profitability can fluctuate with changes in the local, national and even worldwide economy. Savvy photographer/ businesspersons have to be prepared to “roll with the punches”, offer diversified services to fall back on and keep abreast of trends, not only in the economy, that may affect their business model. Business is not easy so a cool website is far from enough to keep a business alive. There has to be in-person networking, “old school pavement pounding”, good bookkeeping and accounting maintainability, wise forecasting and most importantly continual delivery of great imagery accompanied by super service. Some pro photographers don't ACT- they only REACT, that is, they wait until their business falls into a serious downturn and by then, it may be too late to avoid a catastrophic result. Good bookkeeping will reveal problematic trends such as overspending, underpricing, poor or complete lack of promotional activities, potentially bad investments and many other things that must be corrected, controlled more closely or even eliminated from your business plan. Speaking of which, a business that starts off without a logical business plan may be doomed from the onset.

My point is simple enough. When a business begins to “go south” and there are downtrends in sales and profitability, I suggest troubleshooting in an introspective manner, that is, look into some of the aforementioned financial issues, take a analytical look at the promotional efforts, see that you are addressing the right marketplace for your caliber and price lines, and most importantly, take a good hard look at the quality and services you are offering because many potential clients will pay more for what the perceive as good value.

I never blame the cheap-seekers and the bargain hunters for any downtrends in my own business because I don't even try to compete with the price-cutters or the mass production mall and supermarket “studios” and their regular customers. In fact, I run as far and fast as I can to separate myself from that entire segment of the industry. I am not in business to offer loss leaders to bring business into a department store. I don't have my customers waiting on long lines with screaming babies only to get a quick and dirty sitting. I do everything, to my client's benefit, that all the cheap guys don't or can't do. If I detect potential problems, I fix then before they multiply- and the certainly can multiply- quickly and exponentially!

There is no magic and I don't have a crystal ball! It's just a matter of damn hard work, not allowing things to get away from me, and treating my clients with professionalism and kindness- I do want them to come back, time and time again!

If anyone wants to look at things in a more pedestrian manner; well- you can buy a car in a junkyard and try to fix it up, you can opt for a used or new “economy car”, you can buy a dodgy car from a curb-side dodgy dealer and take your chances but, what with all theses options, I don't see the luxury car and higher end truck dealers going out of business anytime soon. There is still a market for quality, prestige, and expensive products. There is still a market for reliable and practical products but even good conservative items come at a higher cost.

Ed

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

We actually agree fully. I didn't forward the notion that every potential customer fits the description of cheap though. I said there's two markets, the one you have worked in, and the other which are the swirling waters of cheap, cheap, cheap. You have apparently managed to stay far away from the precipice where one can fall from one side down into the other and that's good for you.

Unfortunately there are those who are closer to it, possibly not because of their own errors but because of a changing marketplace. A city that was hit by hard times and a lot of the upper middle to higher income wage earners moved away is left with a higher percentage of more cost conscious consumers. That shift alone is enough to tumble some true professionals over the edge or they hold their ground, hold their pricing, and are bypassed for CHEAP. It's like checkmate. Do they give a discount to capture a customer to keep the bills paid, or do they hold their normal pricing and potentially lose the customer and not pay the bills?

In tangible commodities like cameras and lenses (and musical instruments) many a Mom & Pop brick and mortar store that were doing quite well in 2002 vanished completely by 2008. If you would have talked to Mom or Pop in 2002 they would have had no clue that they'd be out of business in just a few years because everything looked peachy at the time. But along came something beyond their control - extreme Internet commerce and their marketplace becoming mesmerized, or you could say, hypnotized by clicking "Add to Cart" buttons to buy CHEAP (although sometimes it actually isn't). Suddenly Mom & Pop are a statistic and their storefront sits empty other than a layer of dust on the counter tops and shelves.

It happened up north to music stores in my area. A Pop & 3 Sons chain of 4 stores in business for 60 years and big in school band instruments and repairs folded. A Band Director turned school band instruments and repairs store folded after 35 years. A Mom & Pop rock music instrument store lasted for 25 years with two peaks over $2.5 million per year but were knocked to the ground twice by national chain stores coming to town. Finally the Internet ate them up and they closed. My stores were there 7 years and I had to fold because my clientele was middle class factory workers losing their jobs in an area of an unofficial 30% unemployment rate. The only store left when I moved south was a store where the owner had bought the building and inventory from the previous owner, paid the building off over 25 years, and it was two story. He sells stuff downstairs, gives lessons downstairs, repairs stuff downstairs, and he and his wife live upstairs. He has survived the Internet because of very low overhead and virtually no personal living costs. He doesn't try to compete and has unique brands. If a customer wants to buy from him they pay his price. If not, he goes on with his service and lessons, and they go somewhere else. But like you, people in town know he represents quality instruments, quality repairs, solid warranties, quality teaching, etc. and the ones who aren't of the CHEAP market go straight there to buy. He has carved out a higher class niche market and does well in it. I have connections in the industry to buy stuff at cost but I'd even go there to buy from him!

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Marco!

Yes! I can appreciate all the points you have mentioned and it is very true that business, nowadays, is tougher than ever.

It is true that socioeconomic conditions, in any geographic location, can change seemingly overnight. Mines, factories, traditional manufacturing industries all can disappear and give way to cheap labor in other countries. Small towns and cities that are dependent on a certain main industrial installation can become virtual ghost towns in a very short time if or when that main industry closes down or shift their manufacturing bases offshore. Middle-class communities can turn into deprived areas- I have seen that happen in my old home town in New York City. In a big city like NYC, a photographer can follow his clientele to a different neighborhood or move out to the more affluent suburbs. In smaller and less populated areas, a business can easily collapse due to economic changes because following its clientele is nearly impossible in that people will disperse in many directions. This situation may mean that a photographer may have to move to a different state and start a new business from scratch- that can be devastating.

Even if there are no big socioeconomic shifts, there are very real and radical shifts in the professional photographic marketplace. Perhaps the expectation of quality on the part of consumers has deteriorated along with the quality standards of the pro photographer themselves. In some communities, priorities have changed as to the importance of professional photography. This malaise surfaces more in the wedding and portrait segments of the industry. Commercial and industrial photography may hold higher standards because photographers are oftentimes hired by other professionals such as art directors and more experienced buyers. There are pockets of “cheapness” in every market but, in my experience, it is less prevalent in the commercial fields. What with eventual costs of print advertising and the accompanying deadlines, the client needs a perfect image on time because lots of money is at stake.

Nowadays, however, in all areas of our industry, customer loyalty is fast becoming a thing of the past. Clients, in general, can be very fickle and go elsewhere, for their regular requirements and occasions, and only return when the cheaper guys mess up and then they show up with emergencies! That happens!

In my own case, I work very hard to keep my standard high and keep up with current trends all at the same time- that ain't easy but I do manage to keep a fair amount of regular clients and secure lots referral business from this core clientele. Importantly enough, many years ago I decided to diversify my business and go into the commercial and industrial fields. I started off, back in the late 50s, as a portrait and wedding photographer but in the late 70s, I delved into the commercial fields; got some more education, practiced hard, networked hard and built a portfolio. Nowadays, my workload and cash flow are less seasonal- I work all year round! My last stats showed that 60% of my revenues came for the commercial fields.

It ain't easy but sticktoitiveness will pay off!

Ed

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

The wise move was going into commercial and industrial. You may have to contend with a fickle director of whatever project you're on but if your reputation precedes you, even that isn't too bad. You are not trying to please a retail customer every few days who may range from "oh that's perfect" to completely insanely anal retentive to the point of needing to be institutionalized.

I'm one layer removed from retail level people normally because I work with realtors in real estate photography. But sometimes even the realtor flips out.

I've got one 30 miles north of me that called on me from a past reference to shoot a home. I did an excellent job as usual, he was all praises, sold the house quickly, and started using me practically every week, sometimes twice a week - always commenting about high quality and even once said he would pay even more if need be to have my quality of work. He was selling houses left and right, sometimes the same day he listed them on MLS, being more profitable than ever in his career and telling me he knew it was the initial presentations that were bringing home buyers in droves to his listings.

He bought a brand new loaded SUV cash, went on a cruise for Thanksgiving, etc. Everything was fine but his controlling wife who is also a realtor started working with him in August. She's a pinch penny, I could tell from the get-go when I met her. I didn't hear from him for a while and I sent an email jokingly saying, "Hey buddy, what'd you do go on a cruise?" He wrote back and said they did, they had hired an assistant, she had taken a couple photography classes in college, has a nice camera, and that he's going to have her shoot homes for him from now on, except I'd be his 'go to' guy for more expensive homes. The problem is, he doesn't do "more expensive" homes. They're all Plain Jane ranch houses below $300K.

So in other words, "See ya later. We found a way to get the job done in a mediocre way which is good enough (in the wife's mind) compared to what we were spending on you. The person making this decision (the wife) is too stupid to know that the 35-50% accelerated rate at which we have been selling homes is because of the quality pictures so we're going to try it with an amateur who doesn't charge much, if anything, to do it and see what happens."

Now, in embarrassment, he doesn't even email me anymore when a house sells but emails the tour hosting service and asks them to delete the tours which they can't and won't because they're in my name. But they are nice enough to tell me about his requests and I delete them.

I have another local realtor who seems to be either bi-polar or going through menopause and she's off the wall in one direction one week or mean and off the wall in the other direction the next week. I never know what to expect from her. She brings lots of work to the table but sometimes she's almost unbearable and I have to go in another room and count to 10 to not walk out and quit her.

Rarely do I have to contend with the home owners themselves giving me grief but if they give the realtor grief the realtor asks me to help resolve issues. It's weird, for years I had no complaints and only praise from homeowners but this year within two months I've had three wackos complaining about bathroom tile color not being bright enough, there not being enough shots of the pool with a bay behind it (although the bay is blocked by brush and only the owner knows the bay is there), and another feeling the home was too pale and didn't look right because I reduced the level of yellow caused by tungsten bulbs throughout the home. Yes, if you stand in the living room it's a yellowish beige, but if you stand in the entry foyer it's a sunlit beige, so I chose to make the rooms less artificially lit and he didn't like it.

These are rare and you can't get away from retail rudeness completely but at least I've got the realtor shield for protection. As in your commercial and industrial work, if I keep realtors (at least most of them but not all apparently) totally happy I'm pretty well protected from big up and downs of the unstable retail CHEAP-mindset market of portraiture and weddings.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Marco!

Real Estate People! Many of the ones here, in my neck of the woods are indeed borderline certifiable! They are still running around free because there is little room at the old asylum! Some of them are so “cheap” that the use passport photos for the business portraits and use cell-phone shots for adverting some of their listings. Some hire amateurs and end up with badly distorted images where the interior and exterior shots look like the walls are caving in. I have one smart real estate broker who calls me in to shoot regularly. Most of my architectural work is done for architects, interior designers, decorators and folks who furnish building materials, kitchen installations, flooring and other such components.

Here's a few examples.

bigwolf40 Loc: Effort, Pa.

You do excellent work. A real pro....Rich

marcomarks Loc: Ft. Myers, FL

My thoughts exactly. It's hard to find the ones who don't think like that but they're out there.

Here's a few examples.