Somebody's Child - Ethics, Philosphy and Street Photography (Page 2): You are not trashing anything Mike. I knew this could be a thread that provoked strong opinions when I started it.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Blenheim Orange wrote:

You have absolutely no way to know this particular... (show quote)

You are not trashing anything Mike. I knew this could be a thread that provoked strong opinions when I started it. It is OK!

My own views are more like yours, but I respect Bill's, too.

I worked with what I called the Lost Boys through much of my career, and I know very well what kinds of things can befall kids before they are old enough to know how to define their own paths. Then there are also those who, with every advantage, somehow decide to take a path to destruction that breaks their parents' hearts.

Believe it or not, you guys -all of you - have at least helped me track down my own feelings about this photograph.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Pixelpixie88 wrote:

Hmmmm....I think this brought out emotions in you because you have young men in your life...grandsons. Other than being somewhat dirty looking, he does look healthy and not sad about being in this position. I don't feel overly bad for him, but sad that there has to be people like this.
I have not had any opportunity for street photography like this and I will be anxious to hear what others have to say too.

I'm figuring it out. Usually I'm a tough old bird. But I raised 3 sons and have 3 grandsons, and spent my career working with boys like this so he just struck a chord with me. Plus I'm a cat lover.

He didn't seem to be starving but he was definitely impaired. The cat was not alarmed, which was a good sign.

luvmypets Loc: Born & raised Texan living in Fayetteville NC

I think this bothers you because you have a good heart and don't want to see anyone in unfortunate circumstances. Whether he is there because of poor choices on his part or circumstances beyond his control is not important. This is a young person doing what he can with the circumstances he is currently in. Maybe he could have made choices that would put him in different circumstances but this is where he is now.

Seeing that he cares about something other than himself (the cat) shows that he can share love and life even if he is not in the best place in his own life. So many people think only of themselves.

(Yes, there are people who portray themselves as homeless but really aren't and that is a sad subject, indeed.)

I think it's a very good photo of this young man and his cat. It tells a story and that's what good street photography should do.

Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan

Bill Houghton wrote:

She asked for are honest opinion. I gave it. If you wish to be a bleeding heart buy a mini van and bring them home with you have a great time. I'd rather see them get a job. I've parked my share cars, drove a taxi, carried golf clubs, painted fences and never once was my hand out. You are not my judge.

Yes, you gave your "honest opinion." But not about the photograph, not about the photographer's view or thoughts - both of which you ignored - and most certainly not about the subject, since you could know nothing about him. Instead, you jumped on the opportunity to make some sort of social statement. That says a lot about you, but nothing about the photograph or the subject or the photographer's dilemma.

I gave you my honest opinion about that.

Meanwhile, you assume - falsely - that I was making some sort of social statement, as evidenced by your snarky "if you want to be a bleeding heart" remark.

Mike

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

minniev wrote:

Last weekend I took a photo that bothered me, and ... (show quote)

I don't see any problem here. You asked, he agreed. Unless you use this photo commercially there is no problem. It's a pleasant picture. A man and his best friend.

Bill Houghton Loc: New York area

He would not be a street person for any photo I would want he is a begger, panhandler. The cat is his bait, his meal ticket. His monkey on string so to say.

http://articles.philly.com/1989-07-13/news/26133012_1_street-people-hungry-man-con-artists

Note he is not a child, he is a young man working his trade.

PERIOD>

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

luvmypets wrote:

I think this bothers you because you have a good h... (show quote)

Thanks for coming by and commenting. I know from what I saw that he's on a bad road, and I didn't remove those clues, though they are subtle. Five years from now, if he's still alive, he will likely be much more than five years older and much harder. And he's still somebody's kid.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

boberic wrote:

I don't see any problem here. You asked, he agreed. Unless you use this photo commercially there is no problem. It's a pleasant picture. A man and his best friend.

I don't do commercial except for landscapes, so the legality wasn't what bothered me. That other gray area is what seemed to be nagging me, the whole philosophy part.. Thanks for weighing in!

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Bill Houghton wrote:

He would not be a street person for any photo I would want he is a begger, panhandler. The cat is his bait, his meal ticket.

http://articles.philly.com/1989-07-13/news/26133012_1_street-people-hungry-man-con-artists

Often the younger street people in New Orleans have animals that seem to help their masters' "cause" (begging). It isn't just New Orleans, I know. I saw the same thing in Amsterdam and Antwerp. Regulars in New Orleans include a guy with a huge boa constrictor, a girl with a parrot, many dogs. The girl with the parrot and one guy with a dog have almost crossed the boundary between beggar and street performer. I have often noted the closeness between these people and their animals.

Bill Houghton Loc: New York area

minniev wrote:

Often the younger street people in New Orleans have animals that seem to help their masters' "cause" (begging). It isn't just New Orleans, I know. I saw the same thing in Amsterdam and Antwerp. Regulars in New Orleans include a guy with a huge boa constrictor, a girl with a parrot, many dogs. The girl with the parrot and one guy with a dog have almost crossed the boundary between beggar and street performer. I have often noted the closeness between these people and their animals.

Minniev, I'm not trying to put you down. I understand your feeling, I just I don't feel this person is worthy of you emotions. It is a world wide problem. My contention being he is old enough to know the difference. If people keep handing him money he will never stand up. I have worked with drug addicts in rehab centers. I have tried to rescue people sleeping under tarps in Downtown Northeast areas. His response, leave me alone. He's still there. I've moved on. I don't feel sorry for them. I pitty them, but not sorry.

If you want to be really sorry, go help out a the Special Olympics in your area as I have. There is where you can let your heat really bleed out.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

Bill Houghton wrote:

Minniev, I'm not trying to put you down. I unders... (show quote)

I didn't feel put down, Bill. I asked for responses and I figured they would be from all perspectives! Still, feeling sorry about people is somewhat different from feeling sorry for them. The comments from everyone here, yourself included, have indeed helped me clarify my own feelings and learn that others are troubled by troubled people too (including yourself as you explain here). How we react emotionally to their trouble may differ but we do react. Sorting out the emotions and the photography is at the core of the questions I asked. Thanks for participating.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

minniev wrote:

Last weekend I took a photo that bothered me ...

It would have bothered me as well, which is why I avoid them. Many of us don't want to think about the welfare of others. As George Segal once joked, "I upped my income. Up yours."

There is no way of knowing whether this guy is on his way up or down or whether he is satisfied with his station in life - whether is is creative, honest, intelligent, ambitious or any of the other things we associate with success in our society.

I grew up in a country where people were poor but dignified and happy with their station in life. Unfortunately, that led to their loss of freedom for the next 50+ years. Complacency is just not something with which we are comfortable in this country.

jgordon Loc: Boulder CO

I like the image. I also like to look at good street photography in general, but I have a hard time making such images. Sometimes when I try, I have a feeling that I am taking advantage of a subject's sad circumstances.

Great street photographers teach us about the humanity of their subjects. They can help us appreciate the tragedies of those who live in very difficult circumstances. Great street photographers help us look at realities from which we might otherwise avert our eyes.

I am not a great street photographer. Sometimes, as a result, my photographic efforts along this line feel voyeuristic.

I think the image of the young man with the cat is a good one. It shows him as a human being. It doesn't bother me.

Bill Houghton Loc: New York area

Mini, here is some more reading, the poor soles your taking about, the ones being abused and taken advantage of, are not this person. For your reading pleasure. This guy was a pro.

http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/panhandlers-have-many-strategies-for-getting-peoples-sympathy-in-order-to/1015963

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

selmslie wrote:

It would have bothered me as well, which is why I ... (show quote)

Thanks for sharing. I don't avoid, though my husband wishes I did:) I am morbidly curious about how they came to be where they are, what their strengths and gifts are that have gone undeveloped. My mother's mantra was from one of Sandburg's poems: "Look for songs hidden in eggs", and I think that is just part of who I am and has infected my poor efforts at street photography as well.

I never pry but I never fail to engage in a conversation if the opportunity develops. Here our conversation remained mostly about the cat.