Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
For Your Consideration
Somebody's Child - Ethics, Philosphy and Street Photography
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
Sep 3, 2015 20:21:28   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
MattPhox wrote:
I think that you have successfully chronicled what is part of life on this planet with a compelling photo. Sometimes life is raw. It doesn't seem as though you violated his dignity so I don't see a problem. It is a fabulous photo technically and draws that emotion that you experience. Great job.


Thank you for these comments. I agree, dignity is important. And it is hard for me to photograph successfully without emotional connection, whether to people, places, things or events.

Reply
Sep 3, 2015 20:27:37   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Great post. Thanks for starting the thread and for your commentary, and for the work you have done and are doing.

Mike


I had some reluctance to broach this subject and would not have done so anywhere else. This is a place where such things can be discussed more than superficially if we choose, even with disagreements, but without devolving into chaos or bitterness. Thank you all.

Reply
Sep 3, 2015 22:36:56   #
jgordon Loc: Boulder CO
 
minniev wrote:
...The institutions or "system", if you will, makes it incredibly hard for help to arrive in the hands of those who need it, and this accounts for much of the stress in such work, which all of us handle differently because we all bring to the table our own stories. Sometimes we have to back up and punt. ...

And indeed, it always about us. Even my dilemma in this photo, as I learned from you, Bill and others, is not about the young man or even about street photography, but about me :)
...The institutions or "system", if you ... (show quote)


This is an interesting discussion. I agree that in some ways it tends to be more about those of us who participate in the discussion than about the young man who appears in the photo with his cat.

A single still photography image of this sort can be powerful – but its power is necessarily limited. This image tells us that the young man is probably a street person. The image shows him to have an open, alive and interesting face. The image suggests that he has the capacity for love because of his relationship with the cat.

The image does not tell us how he wound up on the streets. It cannot tell us whether he has mental health issues or was abused as a child. It doesn’t tell us if he wound up on the streets after losing a job or after suffering physical or mental illness. It also doesn’t tell us whether those viewing the image are “bleeding hearts.” Sure, we can read all kinds of stuff into the image based upon our own experiences and viewpoints – but to expect this one image to carry the weight of such observations is unreasonable.

What a single image of this sort can do is to show us that this young man is a human being. Perhaps he is flawed but he is none-the-less a real person. That's all the image can show, but it is a lot.

Reply
 
 
Sep 4, 2015 16:35:58   #
jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL
 
minniev wrote:
Last weekend I took a photo that bothered me, and I would appreciate opinions and feedback about the image and/or about the issues I'm raising. Please include your own photos (or not), they are welcome.

I am not a street photographer, but do dabble in it especially when I go to New Orleans. I’ve always taken pictures of interesting local characters, homeless people, tourists - some with their permission, some without their knowing, some candid and some posed. I wouldn't call any of them portraits.

This one seems more of a portrait to me. And, it has been bothering me more than other photos I’ve taken secretly or openly.This young man came by as I got out of the car before 7 AM, asking for money. His trouble was easy to spot. He walked with us a couple of blocks towards an area where others had already congregated or slept the night before. I asked for a photo which he gladly obliged. He is somebody’s child, bogged down on a bad road, and he has made me sad every time I scan past this image. If it makes me feel bad, does that mean I should not have taken it? Why did this one bother me so? Maybe because I have sons and grandsons, maybe because he was so young, or maybe it was the cat...

Technically, I had issues with lens fog, which even with the best precautions is unavoidable immediately after you step into New Orleans in August. I didn’t try to mitigate that in post. I didn’t try to mitigate anything. I will attempt editing improvements if some are suggested.

But the ethical/philosophical question I am asking is if any of you who do street photography feel conflicted about some of the images you take, and what you do about that.
Last weekend I took a photo that bothered me, and ... (show quote)


Others have talked about their feelings. My comments have to do with the image itself.

It is an engaging portrait. Without the accompanying information I would have not known but would have guessed that the young man was experiencing some kind of distress.

I find colour distracting in this instance. What do you think about B/W and darkening surroundings and present with a slight, very slight, halo of light surrounding his head area? The kitty might be darkened along with the surroundings to the point where it isn't really noticeable at first but upon cursory examination it becomes more and more important. One might then infer a symbiotic relationship between the two as though at least they had each other.

With that said, my dear, this is one very lovely photograph.

Reply
Sep 4, 2015 16:54:13   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
jgordon wrote:
This is an interesting discussion. I agree that in some ways it tends to be more about those of us who participate in the discussion than about the young man who appears in the photo with his cat.

A single still photography image of this sort can be powerful – but its power is necessarily limited. This image tells us that the young man is probably a street person. The image shows him to have an open, alive and interesting face. The image suggests that he has the capacity for love because of his relationship with the cat.

The image does not tell us how he wound up on the streets. It cannot tell us whether he has mental health issues or was abused as a child. It doesn’t tell us if he wound up on the streets after losing a job or after suffering physical or mental illness. It also doesn’t tell us whether those viewing the image are “bleeding hearts.” Sure, we can read all kinds of stuff into the image based upon our own experiences and viewpoints – but to expect this one image to carry the weight of such observations is unreasonable.

What a single image of this sort can do is to show us that this young man is a human being. Perhaps he is flawed but he is none-the-less a real person. That's all the image can show, but it is a lot.
This is an interesting discussion. I agree that i... (show quote)


JGordon, you sneaked back in here with more of your insightful, well thought out comments, and I appreciate your adding this. The relationship between the two subjects sent a special kind of message to me. Regardless of why he elected to have a cat companion, it was clear the two were closely connected.The rest is simply conjecture. And that is what much of art is about, seeing and figuring out what it means to us. I'm not claiming this photo is art (or start that age old argument about what art is), but art is what I strive for.

Reply
Sep 4, 2015 16:56:17   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
jim hill wrote:
Others have talked about their feelings. My comments have to do with the image itself.

It is an engaging portrait. Without the accompanying information I would have not known but would have guessed that the young man was experiencing some kind of distress.

I find colour distracting in this instance. What do you think about B/W and darkening surroundings and present with a slight, very slight, halo of light surrounding his head area? The kitty might be darkened along with the surroundings to the point where it isn't really noticeable at first but upon cursory examination it becomes more and more important. One might then infer a symbiotic relationship between the two as though at least they had each other.

With that said, my dear, this is one very lovely photograph.
Others have talked about their feelings. My commen... (show quote)


I always appreciate your feedback Jim. I will try a monochrome version, I see what you're aiming at and it makes sense. I actually did almost nothing to this image, it confounded me so.

Reply
Sep 4, 2015 18:23:59   #
Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 

"To photograph people is to violate them, by seeing them as they
never see themselves, by having knowledge of them that they can
never have; it turns people into objects that can be
symbolically possessed.


Just as a camera is a sublimation of the gun, to photograph
someone is a subliminal murder
..."

-- Susan Sontag, On Photography, 1983

Just to start with, regardless of that particular photograph, we do have to be very careful to respect the people and other subjects we photograph. The very act of arrogance in photographing anything leans towards disrespect, and unless we are overtly pushing back in the other direction we lose credibility.

A similar concept is one I learned as a teenager while photographing Tohono O'Odham people at the San Xavier del Bac mission near Tucson, AZ in the early 1960's. I was told they believe a photograph takes a part of the spirit of an object. That was a heavy concept at the time, but it did make decisions about who or what to photograph very easy. But over 50 years later, all that I photograph are the spirits of objects, rather than the objects...

In this particular case, as is clear from the discussion here, the photograph (at least in the context that exists here) has turned the subject into exactly what Sontag described, an object that is symbolically possessed, in a less than totally respectful way, and hence has been subject to "subliminal murder".

That is acceptable only because the topic here is what makes that happen, and how to manage it. Which of course should strictly be how to avoid the lack of respect being extended to the subject of the photograph.

Unless a photographer is comfortable with it, the solution is don't do it. I've always thought the litmus test was pretty simple: I want a photograph that not only would the subject be happy to give to their father or mother, but that I personally would be proud to present.

Photographs that emphasize circumstances that degrade the subject on a permanent basis just might not be appropriate. The same circumstances, when made to appear joyous or temporary, might be perfect.

Possessing the symbol is one thing, kicking it into the corner is another! This thread has had way too much discussion about that corner, and not enough about how to keep the symbol away from there.

Reply
 
 
Sep 4, 2015 20:39:25   #
minniev Loc: MIssissippi
 
Apaflo wrote:

"To photograph people is to violate them, by seeing them as they
never see themselves, by having knowledge of them that they can
never have; it turns people into objects that can be
symbolically possessed.


Just as a camera is a sublimation of the gun, to photograph
someone is a subliminal murder
..."

-- Susan Sontag, On Photography, 1983

Just to start with, regardless of that particular photograph, we do have to be very careful to respect the people and other subjects we photograph. The very act of arrogance in photographing anything leans towards disrespect, and unless we are overtly pushing back in the other direction we lose credibility.

A similar concept is one I learned as a teenager while photographing Tohono O'Odham people at the San Xavier del Bac mission near Tucson, AZ in the early 1960's. I was told they believe a photograph takes a part of the spirit of an object. That was a heavy concept at the time, but it did make decisions about who or what to photograph very easy. But over 50 years later, all that I photograph are the spirits of objects, rather than the objects...

In this particular case, as is clear from the discussion here, the photograph (at least in the context that exists here) has turned the subject into exactly what Sontag described, an object that is symbolically possessed, in a less than totally respectful way, and hence has been subject to "subliminal murder".

That is acceptable only because the topic here is what makes that happen, and how to manage it. Which of course should strictly be how to avoid the lack of respect being extended to the subject of the photograph.

Unless a photographer is comfortable with it, the solution is don't do it. I've always thought the litmus test was pretty simple: I want a photograph that not only would the subject be happy to give to their father or mother, but that I personally would be proud to present.

Photographs that emphasize circumstances that degrade the subject on a permanent basis just might not be appropriate. The same circumstances, when made to appear joyous or temporary, might be perfect.

Possessing the symbol is one thing, kicking it into the corner is another! This thread has had way too much discussion about that corner, and not enough about how to keep the symbol away from there.
code br "To photograph people is to vi... (show quote)


Those are thought-provoking comments. Thank you for joining in the discussion. I do hope this young man would indeed like the image. I have, after other trips, taken prints to people I've figured out how to find - some have regular locations. He was unintimidated, seemed to like being asked, and proud of his companion. I don't think he had nearly the reservations that I had, but my reservations came not from his perception of his situation but from mine. And I had those reservations after the fact. (In the moment, he was simply an interesting human being I was engaged with, and I just wanted to do a good job with the image). We all perceive through our own perspective, it is the only one we have.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
For Your Consideration
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.