Know Your Camera & EBTR
Jun 12, 2015 01:38:54 #
We've all heard about or read about Expose To The Right. How about Expose Beyond The Right? This was a concept covered by Uuglypher in his post:
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-301264-1.html
Following his lead, and after testing and evaluating, quite a bit, I arrived at the conclusion that my Nikon D700 could capture detail with an exposure of an additional 1-1/2 to 2 stops over what the meter indicated was a "proper" exposure.
Here are two images, the first SOOC, the second post processed keeping in mind the additional exposure and compensating for it during the post processing work flow.
At the time of taking the photograph, the exposure compensation was set to +1.5. The camera was in Manual Mode, the scene was metered such that the meter indicated correct exposure, and the photograph taken.
There is a great deal of image information captured that could be used in post processing.
--Bob
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-301264-1.html
Following his lead, and after testing and evaluating, quite a bit, I arrived at the conclusion that my Nikon D700 could capture detail with an exposure of an additional 1-1/2 to 2 stops over what the meter indicated was a "proper" exposure.
Here are two images, the first SOOC, the second post processed keeping in mind the additional exposure and compensating for it during the post processing work flow.
At the time of taking the photograph, the exposure compensation was set to +1.5. The camera was in Manual Mode, the scene was metered such that the meter indicated correct exposure, and the photograph taken.
There is a great deal of image information captured that could be used in post processing.
--Bob
Jun 12, 2015 02:22:56 #
Bob looks like you've got a blow out right next to the headlights. Does that mean you were too over exposed?
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
Jun 12, 2015 06:29:22 #
rmalarz wrote:
We've all heard about or read about b E /b xpose ... (show quote)
And some cameras are more tolerant of overexposure than others.
http://www.colda.com/?p=963
But one way to do a shot like this is to use the spot meter function, see which area of the car is the "hottest." If you are using a D800 you can add up to 1.3 stops at base ISO before you start to get unrecoverable highlights.
Jun 12, 2015 08:25:48 #
rmalarz wrote:
We've all heard about or read about b E /b xpose ... (show quote)
Looks like the fist exposure was not too far beyond the ETTR/ "clip-a-bit" status and that the second exposure sure captured most of your available ERADR!
The dang system do work, don't it?
Bruce Fraser, Mike Reichmann , and Jeff Schewey weren't just "whistling Dixie", were they?
Dave
Jun 12, 2015 08:27:18 #
Uuglypher wrote:
Looks like the fist exposure was not too far beyond the ETTR/ "clip-a-bit" status and that the second exposure sure captured most of your available ERADR!
The dang system do work, don't it?
Bruce Fraser, Mike Reichmann , and Jeff Schewey weren't just "whistling Dixie", were they?
Dave
The dang system do work, don't it?
Bruce Fraser, Mike Reichmann , and Jeff Schewey weren't just "whistling Dixie", were they?
Dave
No, they definitely know their Schmidt . . . .
Jun 12, 2015 10:13:06 #
SharpShooter wrote:
Bob looks like you've got a blow out right next to the headlights. Does that mean you were too over exposed?
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
SS, thanks for taking a look, as many did, but also to comment. I'm not sure of which area you are referring. So, I'll address both, the decorative chrome around the headlight and the larger area just below the headlight assembly, which is part of the bumper. The brightest area immediately around the head light, chrome, has RGB values of 240, 225, 204. The large bright area just below the headlight has values of 182, 181, 173. So, no there is no blown out area there, just a quite bright reflection.
The only bracket I needed was to determine how much beyond what the meter indicated could I expose and still capture details.
--Bob
Jun 12, 2015 10:18:48 #
Gene51 wrote:
And some cameras are more tolerant of overexposure than others.
http://www.colda.com/?p=963
But one way to do a shot like this is to use the spot meter function, see which area of the car is the "hottest." If you are using a D800 you can add up to 1.3 stops at base ISO before you start to get unrecoverable highlights.
http://www.colda.com/?p=963
But one way to do a shot like this is to use the spot meter function, see which area of the car is the "hottest." If you are using a D800 you can add up to 1.3 stops at base ISO before you start to get unrecoverable highlights.
Gene, thanks for looking and the link. During tests, which I just mentioned in my reply to SS, I found that I could record details at up to a slight bit over +2. I played this one a bit on the conservative side and used matrix metering with a compensation of +1.5.
--Bob
Jun 12, 2015 10:21:35 #
Uuglypher wrote:
Looks like the fist exposure was not too far beyond the ETTR/ "clip-a-bit" status and that the second exposure sure captured most of your available ERADR!
The dang system do work, don't it?
Bruce Fraser, Mike Reichmann , and Jeff Schewey weren't just "whistling Dixie", were they?
Dave
The dang system do work, don't it?
Bruce Fraser, Mike Reichmann , and Jeff Schewey weren't just "whistling Dixie", were they?
Dave
Dave, in reality the first post was not very much beyond. I dialed in a +1.5 exposure compensation, and that was a bit conservative. ETBR works, and very nicely too.
--Bob
Jun 12, 2015 10:29:36 #
SharpShooter wrote:
Bob looks like you've got a blow out right next to the headlights. Does that mean you were too over exposed?
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
You did not have a control shot. You needed one at proper exposure.
Would that be too noisy in the background when you brought it up? I guess we'll never know! Maybe better to bracket, you can always convert to HDR. ;-)
SS
Hi, SS,
Your observation of "blown highlights" nest to the headlights in the SOOC image merely indicates that if your aim had been to capture a correctly exposed JPEGfile, it would have been overexposed.
The JPEG-adjusted thumbnail seen in your cameras LCD will always appear too bright and washed out if exposed properly for EBTR raw data capture.
With EBTR, regardless of the ISO you use, you'll capture less noise than you would using the same ISO with a standard "proper" JPEG exposure, because you've pulled all the image data farther to the right, and thus farther from the " Mother Lode" of noise back in the left end of the JPEG-dusted histogram frame.
Depending on your camera's allotment of Extra Raw-Accessible Dynamic Range (ERADR) you may have no need for HDR.
Dave
Jun 12, 2015 13:13:56 #
the correct technique is to expose for the important highlights and place them as far to the right as possible without losing data.
If you go "beyond" this point you screwed up. And yes you need to know what your camera is capable of capturing. Most modern cameras can capture around 2 1/2 stops above middle without problems and some can do even more. My 1DMkIII can safely capture 3 stops up and down.
If you go "beyond" this point you screwed up. And yes you need to know what your camera is capable of capturing. Most modern cameras can capture around 2 1/2 stops above middle without problems and some can do even more. My 1DMkIII can safely capture 3 stops up and down.
Jun 13, 2015 12:23:03 #
tsilva wrote:
the correct technique is to expose for the important highlights and place them as far to the right as possible without losing data.
If you go "beyond" this point you screwed up. And yes you need to know what your camera is capable of capturing. Most modern cameras can capture around 2 1/2 stops above middle without problems and some can do even more. My 1DMkIII can safely capture 3 stops up and down.
If you go "beyond" this point you screwed up. And yes you need to know what your camera is capable of capturing. Most modern cameras can capture around 2 1/2 stops above middle without problems and some can do even more. My 1DMkIII can safely capture 3 stops up and down.
tsilva, the EBTR is pushing the high end of the exposure 2, or more, stops past, not just capturing 2+ stops above the middle.
--Bob
Sep 24, 2017 08:19:43 #
This discussion is helpful to me as well because I have had trouble bracketing, which I began trying to use when shooting something very white, like a Great Egret in bright sunlight. (I shoot RAW, some of this discussion seems to be geard toward shooting JEG?) I find overexposed areas have no data for post processing, so there is no way to bring back the fine texture in the white feathers in overexposed areas on an Egret, and I have trouble bringing out true colors in overexposed images as well although I am just using the Canon processing software (I am learning LR but that is another subject). Just right of course is just right, however an underexposed image from bracketing can be processes to bring out the fine detail in the white areas, and doesn't seem to degrade detail and color in darker areas. In other words, it seems as if underexposing is preferable to overexposing when shooting very white objects. I am also fairly new to this, having started with a Canon 70D without even being aware of sensor size but when I did I quickly jumped to a 5D Mark IV (which I much prefer but again another subject). As far as bracketing goes I have the same issue with both cameras yet is seems to be less of a problem with the 5D but have no idea why a "full frame" would be less likely to wash out an over exposed area, unless the additional sensors have something to do with it. Thanks to all for the information in this discussion.
Sep 24, 2017 11:05:11 #
Sep 24, 2017 11:22:31 #
I agree with much of this, but I think the following is only half the story:
"the correct technique is to expose for the important highlights and place them as far to the right as possible without losing data."
I think a symmetrical approach is in order. If the photograph is about the dark tones, but extreme contrast range precludes getting both the highlights and shadows, then the "correct" approach is to expose for the important shadows, and permit the highlights (sky, sun, thin cloud etc.) To blow out.
The interesting question is: what is "correct" exposure for the darkest portion of the picture? Clearly it has to be a couple of stops above the noise threshold. That's hard to figure, and various with the ISO setting, so bracketing makes a lot of sense here...
"the correct technique is to expose for the important highlights and place them as far to the right as possible without losing data."
I think a symmetrical approach is in order. If the photograph is about the dark tones, but extreme contrast range precludes getting both the highlights and shadows, then the "correct" approach is to expose for the important shadows, and permit the highlights (sky, sun, thin cloud etc.) To blow out.
The interesting question is: what is "correct" exposure for the darkest portion of the picture? Clearly it has to be a couple of stops above the noise threshold. That's hard to figure, and various with the ISO setting, so bracketing makes a lot of sense here...
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