Christians say they will disobey......... (Page 2): FartsBarkroom, As a matter of fact, morals are at the root of all our laws. Laws are created precisely to enact moral decisions.

Kombiguy Loc: Cedar Rapids, IA

ArtzDarkroom wrote:

Morals are not for laws to decide, religions are concerned with morals.

FartsBarkroom,

As a matter of fact, morals are at the root of all our laws. Laws are created precisely to enact moral decisions.
Murder is bad, we make it illegal. Speeding is bad, we make it illegal. Tax evasion bad, we make it illegal.
Laws are simply lapidary morals.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

dljen wrote:

So what other laws should be disobeyed because you disagree and feel they aren't "morally right?" This is precisely why people don't want religion in government. Why should the rest of us be held to your faith when we don't believe in it???

Considering the issue how will one "disobey" the law?

If you believe something is wrong do you not stand up to try and right the wrong? So what you seem to be saying is that we should allow the government to dictate what is right and wrong with no protest from those who disagree? I think they call that tyranny do they not? After all Donna had someone not stood up to the law to change what they saw as wrong abortion would still be illegal, women would not have the right to vote, people would still own people.

I'd add that the vast majority of Christians will obey the law of the land but that does not mean they should not have the right to express their opinion and work to change it if they believe it's wrong....as always JMHO

pbearperry Loc: Massachusetts

I am Christian and a conservative.If two men or women love each other and want to marry, go for it.I have more things in life to wring my hands about.

dljen Loc: Central PA

Pepper wrote:

Considering the issue how will one "disobey&q... (show quote)

These laws shouldn't concern you unless you're gay, then you'd be able to marry your lover and it would be acknowledged by the law. As far as abortion goes, it shouldn't concern you unless you're a woman. A man has nothing to say about a woman getting an abortion, it just isn't his business. Keep religion out of government. If you accept one faith while making laws, what faith should you accept? Muslim, christian, what?

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

dljen wrote:

These laws shouldn't concern you unless you're gay, then you'd be able to marry your lover and it would be acknowledged by the law. As far as abortion goes, it shouldn't concern you unless you're a woman. A man has nothing to say about a woman getting an abortion, it just isn't his business. Keep religion out of government. If you accept one faith while making laws, what faith should you accept? Muslim, christian, what?

It's not about religion, it's about what I believe to be right and wrong and in America I have as much right to express what I believe to be right as you do to express what you believe to be wrong. That's freedom of speech Donna and it's through that same freedom of speech that we debate and work to move forward. Disagreements will come with every change and we all have the right to express what we believe the proper path to be.

dljen Loc: Central PA

Pepper wrote:

It's not about religion, it's about what I believe to be right and wrong and in America I have as much right to express what I believe to be right as you do to express what you believe to be wrong. That's freedom of speech Donna and it's through that same freedom of speech that we debate and work to move forward. Disagreements will come with every change and we all have the right to express what we believe the proper path to be.

You aren't in a position to legislate laws but some people who are, want to make laws based on the bible. Is this right? No. Our Founders agreed that church and state would be separated, yet conservative christians want this. Is this not going against the constitution? Of course it is.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

dljen wrote:

So what other laws should be disobeyed because you disagree and feel they aren't "morally right?" This is precisely why people don't want religion in government. Why should the rest of us be held to your faith when we don't believe in it???

You didn't answer the question Donna. You side step the question to bring religion in the issue. Are morals based on religion? Laws are based on morals. Once the law changes it becomes the new moral. Once abortion was illegal. The Law was changed. Now abortion is the new moral.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

ArtzDarkroom wrote:

Banshee, br br There have been several Presidenti... (show quote)

I have no idea what you are talking about or what it has to do with my question to you. Maybe you are saying that if the Supreme Court upholds the definition that marriage is between one man and one woman that you will accept it and live with it. Is that what you are saying?

As for Laws not based on morals, see my post to Donna.

P.S. It is Bangee5, not Banshee.

ArtzDarkroom Loc: Near Disneyland-Orange County, California

Ban,

"The social contract implies total and unconditional surrender by each individual of his own natural rights in order to obtain the rights associated with citizenship. It is not necessary for the sovereign power to ensure civil liberties and legal rights of his subjects, because their interests are identical to those of the people. If someone refuses to comply with the general will, the citizen may then be forced to comply by the body politic is the meaning of the famous passage in which Rousseau claims that citizens can be forced to be free ." -- Rousseau

I will live by the rule of law. If I disagree with the law, I will act to change it. I am not for chaos.

Bangee5 wrote:

I have no idea what you are talking about or what it has to do with my question to you. Maybe you are saying that if the Supreme Court upholds the definition that marriage is between one man and one woman that you will accept it and live with it. Is that what you are saying?

As for Laws not based on morals, see my post to Donna.

P.S. It is Bangee5, not Banshee.

chrisscholbe Loc: Kansas City, MO

Bangee5 wrote:

If the Supreme Court defends the present definition of marriage that being between one man and one woman, will that change your mind? Will you agree with and live by the Courts decision?

It is the same as the abortion issue. Just because the court said that a woman has the right to abort her unborn baby, it does not make it morally right.

I doubt that ANYONE could change an individuals moral opinion about anything.

SCOTUS can only change the "legal" definition.

dljen Loc: Central PA

Bangee5 wrote:

You didn't answer the question Donna. You side step the question to bring religion in the issue. Are morals based on religion? Laws are based on morals. Once the law changes it becomes the new moral. Once abortion was illegal. The Law was changed. Now abortion is the new moral.

Bangee, I'm not going to go near a q about your morals because they're a far distance from mine. You are basically just a PITA who thinks he's so religious. Once marrying a black person was illegal, yet one of our SCOTUS justices (black) is married to a white woman. Our laws change as we become more accepting...of course, there will always be men less accepting, society will progress leaving them behind.

Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA

ArtzDarkroom wrote:

I will live by the rule of law. If I disagree with the law, I will act to change it. I am not for chaos.

Unless of course you happen to be a Christian, Christians have no right to try and change laws. :roll:

James Shaw

Quote:

Bangee5 wrote:
You didn't answer the question Donna. You side step the question to bring religion in the issue. Are morals based on religion? Laws are based on morals. Once the law changes it becomes the new moral. Once abortion was illegal. The Law was changed. Now abortion is the new moral.

dljen wrote:

Bangee, I'm not going to go near a q about your morals because they're a far distance from mine. You are basically just a PITA who thinks he's so religious. Once marrying a black person was illegal, yet one of our SCOTUS justices (black) is married to a white woman. Our laws change as we become more accepting...of course, there will always be men less accepting, society will progress leaving them behind.

Your words are quite profound, dijen, if I may say so! I may be wrong, but I doubt Bangee knows the important meaning behind what you say. He seems so lost in the past and in his interpretation of Scripture, which is also in the past.

James Shaw

Quote:

ArtzDarkroom wrote:

I will live by the rule of law. If I disagree with the law, I will act to change it. I am not for chaos.

Pepper wrote:

Unless of course you happen to be a Christian, Christians have no right to try and change laws. :roll:

So wrong, Pepper. Christian American-citizens, like all American-citizens, have every right to change laws.

You may be referring to the Bible, in Revelations, where it says plagues of mankind be upon you if you attempt to change the Bible's words?

American citizens have been changing laws for as long as America has been here. We have made Amendments to the Constitution and then abolished one I know. And I am sure Christians have been among them.

James Shaw

Quote:

dljen wrote:
So what other laws should be disobeyed because you disagree and feel they aren't "morally right?" This is precisely why people don't want religion in government. Why should the rest of us be held to your faith when we don't believe in it???

Bangee5 wrote:

You didn't answer the question Donna. You side step the question to bring religion in the issue. Are morals based on religion? Laws are based on morals. Once the law changes it becomes the new moral. Once abortion was illegal. The Law was changed. Now abortion is the new moral.

Bangee, I don't know from what trees you swing, but changing laws does not change one morals. That is totally ridiculous. Think twice before you speak Bangee? A new moral becomes new in one's mind!