Tony.mustang

Hi, when I look at some photos in the photo gallery it is obvious that some of the photos go thru some form of software.however I think some photos look good and some are over done. I would like to see the photo contest to consist of a straight photos vs software adjustments. I believe more members would enter the photo contest if we had such a category.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Tony, the only way to do that would be for us to go back to film and enter only our negatives?!? :lol:
Having good PP skills is as much about being a photographer in todays world as is using your camera.
But I'm the first to say that no amount of PP is going to make a crappy composition better. But certainly a stunning shot can be made more stunning with PP. Don't confuse the two.
If your photography/composition is good enough, you'll need little if any PP.
Unfortunately today PP is just an extension of the Camera and the photographic vision.
Sorry, this is NOT your Dads photography!! ;-)
SS

lightcatcher Loc: Farmington, NM (4 corners)

That is not true "Sorry, this is NOT your Dads photography!!" With film you had the darkroom or professional labs, today you have computer programs for PP.

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

All digital photographs "go thru some form of software".

The only real question is who choses parameters for the software? You can use the defaults of the camera (chosen by engineers at the camera's manufacturer), or the defaults of any given software package, or choose to configure the camera or the software yourself. The defaults are for some notion of what the average picture would need and have nothing to do with your picture. If you configure your camera it's somewhat of a guess as to how well it will then match whatever picture you take.

With post processing you can very finely match the actual picture taken to the editing. Ideally that means it gives you the best chance at producing the best photograph.

Of course your idea of what is "best" won't be the same as the next person. And in fact won't be the same tomorrow as it is today.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Here is a before PP and after PP version of an image that you might recognize. Other than the fact that the photographer did a great job of getting all of the tones recorded in order to manipulate it in post, does the SOOC image have any significant relevance? Would you consider the SOOC image one that you would regard as a work of art?

http://www.kevinshick.com/blog/2013/4/revisiting-hernandez-nm

A measure of the "completeness" of a photographer is one who "sees" the final result BEFORE snapping the shutter, uses his/her knowledge of the gear and media to set the camera correctly, then execute a masterful handling of the image to create a result that is true to the original vision.

If you cut out the post processing, then images might never reach their full potential.

With that being said, yes, I too have seen quite a few images that are overprocessed. It doesn't mean post processing is bad, it just means that the photographer over did things a bit. All digital cameras produce images require processing. Whether the photographer is content with the limited set of adjustments provided by the camera manufacturer in their menus, and scene settings, or he/she is skilled in extracting the "essence" of the original vision - will determine the quality, uniqueness, and impact of the result.

lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode

How long are you going to flog this dead horse Tony?
How about you do things like you like to do them, and we will do things how we like to do them?
The current photo contests do not suffer from lack of entries. We do not NEED more people to enter the contests/challenges.

If you think some category or contest needs to be set up, then what is stopping you?

I see so many SOOC photos that could benefit from the slightest bit of photographic and post processing knowledge.

Maybe you could point out to us some that look good, and some that look overdone?
And if you are worried about offending people, I give you permission to use any of mine as examples and to say what you want to about them.

Most of my photos have post processing done to them. Some of mine have a lot of post processing done. Some have virtually none.

JPL

This is an interesting suggestion. But it is technically almost impossible to do what you suggest by using digital cameras. That is because there are no "straight" photos when you shoot digital. Already when you shoot digital the cameras are set to PP the photos in jpeg and on many cameras those settings (colors, contrast, sharpness etc) can be and usually are fine tuned be each camera user. And if you try to bypass this by allowing only RAW files in the photo contest most of the files from newer cameras would be too big to send them in so then again you need to go to PP to convert the files to be able to send them in and then again you are not anymore using "straight" photos.

AmyJ Loc: Maryland

[quote=Gene51]Here is a before PP and after PP version of an image that you might recognize. Other than the fact that the photographer did a great job of getting all of the tones recorded in order to manipulate it in post, does the SOOC image have any significant relevance? Would you consider the SOOC image one that you would regard as a work of art?

http://www.kevinshick.com/blog/2013/4/revisiting-hernandez-nm

A measure of the "completeness" of a photographer is one who "sees" the final result BEFORE snapping the shutter, uses his/her knowledge of the gear and media to set the camera correctly, then execute a masterful handling of the image to create a result that is true to the original vision.

If you cut out the post processing, then images might never reach their full potential.

With that being said, yes, I too have seen quite a few images that are overprocessed. It doesn't mean post processing is bad, it just means that the photographer over did things a bit. All digital cameras produce images require processing. Whether the photographer is content with the limited set of adjustments provided by the camera manufacturer in their menus, and scene settings, or he/she is skilled in extracting the "essence" of the original vision - will determine the quality, uniqueness, and impact of the result.[/quote

Well stated Gene. Post production sometimes completes the vision, at least the vision for the moment. We went to the Georgia O'Keefe museum in Sante Fe when they were doing a combined showing of her work with Ansel Adams. It was intriguing to learn how Adams changed his printing techniques through the years as his tastes and visions changed. Moonrise is my favorite.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

I would not enter such a contest, because I like my photographs to be as good as they can be, and even when I have nailed the correct exposure and WB, I have never gotten a shot I couldn't improve, even if just in subtle ways, with post processing. I spent many years doing B&W darkroom work, and it was the same there. You must at the very least decide on the contrast grade to print at, and I rarely printed anything without some burning or dodging.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

WOW, I new someday I would be wrong! But it JUST didn't feel like today was going to be that day!!!!!
But geeez, I actually don't feel any different. WHAT a relief!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
SS

lightcatcher Loc: Farmington, NM (4 corners)

Cheer up you now have that day behind you and a lot of the New Year ahead of you.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Great contest! We could see who had the most boring, flatest image.

Sure, there was a day when straight-from-the-camera (chromes) were what we had. There was also a day when a 1953 DeSoto was what people drove and actually thought it was decent.

Some UHH members still want to drive the DeSoto.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

[quote=AmyJ][quote=Gene51]Here is a before PP and after PP version of an image that you might recognize. Other than the fact that the photographer did a great job of getting all of the tones recorded in order to manipulate it in post, does the SOOC image have any significant relevance? Would you consider the SOOC image one that you would regard as a work of art?

http://www.kevinshick.com/blog/2013/4/revisiting-hernandez-nm

A measure of the "completeness" of a photographer is one who "sees" the final result BEFORE snapping the shutter, uses his/her knowledge of the gear and media to set the camera correctly, then execute a masterful handling of the image to create a result that is true to the original vision.

If you cut out the post processing, then images might never reach their full potential.

With that being said, yes, I too have seen quite a few images that are overprocessed. It doesn't mean post processing is bad, it just means that the photographer over did things a bit. All digital cameras produce images require processing. Whether the photographer is content with the limited set of adjustments provided by the camera manufacturer in their menus, and scene settings, or he/she is skilled in extracting the "essence" of the original vision - will determine the quality, uniqueness, and impact of the result.[/quote

Well stated Gene. Post production sometimes completes the vision, at least the vision for the moment. We went to the Georgia O'Keefe museum in Sante Fe when they were doing a combined showing of her work with Ansel Adams. It was intriguing to learn how Adams changed his printing techniques through the years as his tastes and visions changed. Moonrise is my favorite.[/quote]

Amy, there is this widely perpetuated misconception that image manipulation is somehow disingenuous and "false photography." There is no question that documentary, forensic and product photography must be true to life and cannot be manipulated.

Not only did Adams adjust his print process to reflect his ever evolving vision, in the case of Moonrise, he even took the only existing negative of that shot and partially reprocessed it to enhance contrast in some of the areas of the image.

At this point I usually say something like - those who express their disdain for post processing for whatever the reason are either ignorant, lazy, or have low standards for image quality. Or they shoot for newspapers. :)

Some of the best photographers I know personally do amazing reportage, and I am in constant awe of their skill and the results they get. It's a job I know I could never do. At least not as successfully as they can.

I think a competition of SOOC would have a lot of boring lifeless images with little impact - similar to the "before" version of Moonrise. It should be done with all of the picture controls set to neutral or minimal effect - no vivid saturation, extra sharpening, film modes, in camera HDR, Active D Lighting, etc etc etc - and with either daylight or 3200K white balance - - only then could it be considered somewhat fair.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I had an Edsel. I can assure you nobody wanted to drive that car. But there just might be some UHHers that wouldn't drive anything else. :)

I think it was JFK that said

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."

Are there a lot of UHHers missing out on the cool stuff?

JPL

"Change is the law of life. And those who look only to the past or present are certain to miss the future."

This is not a vice man's phrase. JFK is one solid proof of that. Unfortunately there was a big change that made him miss the future. Some have to be very careful about the past and the present to make it into the future. So the past and the present is actually the key to the future, it is not vice to overlook that.