Kmontgomery

I'm fairly new too this so don't eat me alive here. So it seems that in all reviews (which are bogus and biased anyways) people complain that some very high end cameras have "too much noise" at "low" iso's. And it's seems that dynamic range is directly correlates with iso etc. Example. The 7100, the K3 and k52. Even some of the full frame fellas 6d and d600. So what's the deal with the complaints? I plan on eventually post processing which I know nothing about at this moment. I've handled the bodies I'm interested in and they all feel good. So what should be important too me since I'm about too invest in a system. And I don't invest much in who has more glass options. Pentax, canon, nikon all have great stuff.

PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North

Probably the best way to answer your questions is to rent or borrow cameras that you are interested in and test them.

In general, shooting at a lower ISO will improve the dynamic range of your image. (To test this, shoot into a heavily wooded area where some foliage is in bright sunlight and some of the shadow areas are almost completely black. The more of that range you can see in the image, the greater the dynamic range of that shot.) I had a D600 for a few months with great dynamic range at ISOs up to about 1600. Above that I got some chromatic noise which caused me to trade that camera back in.

tradio Loc: Oxford, Ohio

I doesn't really matter what system you go with, the advantage with Nikon and Canon are the ready availability of accessories. You will not fully appreciate the benefits of a good camera until you start to PP your images. Just get a camera that is comfortable in your hands, like a Nikon.

Severums Loc: London, England

Agree with the Nikon plug, noise on my D800 doesn't really start showing until ISO 1600, and then it's easily taken care of with any of the specialist noise reduction software available (Imagenomic, Noise Ninja etc).

Kmontgomery

I've looked into some rentals and the cost is ridiculous.

Severums Loc: London, England

What's your budget?

f8lee Loc: New Mexico

"Too much noise at low ISO" doesn't really make any sense, since noise is the chip's reading of heat photons (from heat emitted from its own electronics) when the sensitivity is set high. Different chip designs can lead to better or poorer performance at high ISO settings (typically used in low light situations or where you must use a fast shutter speed), but first you can think about what kind of shooting you plan on doing.

For tripod-mounted landscape work, it's quite unlikely that you'd care to use very high ISO settings as you probably won't be worrying about freezing action with blazingly fast shutter speeds. On the other hand, for available-light shooting at indoor sports arenas, high ISO is probably going to be your friend (assuming the noise doesn't become problematic).

Sites like http://www.dpreview.com do rather extensive testing of cameras, and post images you can compare at a wide range of ISO settings to give you a sense of how "bad" the noise is for a particular model. They always shoot the same studio setup so you can directly compare virtually any camera with any other, apples to apples. You may want to do a little investigating there to get your own sense of noise at higher ISO settings for a given body, in order to make a more informed decision.

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

Yes some reviews are bogus but not all. Bias is unavoidable, we all have it to some degree, some more than others. Even the best reviewers have some bias.

Here are the ones I suggest. There may be others that are just as good but it seems as if most sites just regurgitate the manufacturer's marketing hype.

DXOmark for sensors and lenses. They don't do cameras.

Keep in mind that the best sensor in the world is useless if you miss the shot. Likewise, the sharpest lens may focus too slowly for the subjects you are after. You have to look at the rest of the camera and lens too.

DPReview and Imaging Resourse for cameras and lenses.

Photozone for lenses.

All have some short comings. The latter three are slow in getting new releases out.

Set your budget and look at the camera reviews that fit from these four sites and weigh the pros and cons. Its a tedious task but necessary if you want the best for the money you are will to pay.

With few exceptions, you usually get what you pay for.

Asking for opinions just gets you opinions; everyone has one.

Get what I got, its the very best. :lol:

Trabor

Was there a question somewhere in that incoherent rant?

DavidPine Loc: Fredericksburg, TX

I appreciate your concerns. Bryan Peterson's, "Understanding Exposure, 3rd. Edition", is as close to a must read as a book can get. Shutter speed, aperture and ISO all work together to help create a proper exposure. Don't get too hung up on a single part of this triangle. Low ISO is good and has less noise. An ISO of 3200 or 6400 during a night shot is a good ISO number. Learn to shoot in RAW so you can make better post processing adjustments. It's all a process you will learn. Good luck.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

KM, welcome to the Hog.
KM, for the most part, if you know how to shoot, you can mitigate all of the concerns of which you speak.
My personal belief is that all of that stuff, will never be seen in the real world. It's only predominant in lab tests and on paper. If that's how you will use your camera, you need be concerned.
Again, my opinion, but those are the worst reasons to pick a camera.
The lenses available to you will make a bigger difference than the latest cameras, as the latest camera will be replaced in a few years.
Pick a camera as a system, with an eye for the long haul, and taking into account where you want your photography goals to be in two, five or ten years. Pick carefully and good luck.
Again, welcome to the Hog. ;-)
SS

Kmontgomery

I appreciate the input. Like in said I'm fairly new so if my question or statements don't make sense it's my lack of experience. I have read for countless hours and had my hands on many fine cameras. And I agree with what you guys are saying. No questions asked are worse than none at all. Perhaps I diddnt interprete them correctly.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

If someone complains about a high end camera having too much noise at a low ISO they are clueless and not looking at printed images.

dynamic range diminishes considerably as the ISO goes up. But some cameras, like the D600/610, D800 are good on noise up to 3200 ISO, but the dynamic range drops to under 9 stops. Other cameras like the D3S, D4 and D4S can easily go to 12800, but again dynamic range does drop.

Generally speaking, full frame cameras are less noisy than smaller sensor cameras, but that really only holds true for cameras in the same generation and with the same resolution.

sb Loc: Florida's East Coast

I tried holding a Nikon - it burned my skin. :lol:

Underwaterant

[quote=Kmontgomery]I'm fairly new too this so don't eat me alive here. So it seems that in all reviews (which are bogus and biased anyways) people complain that some very high end cameras have "too much noise" at "low" iso's. And it's seems that dynamic range is directly correlates with iso etc.


Here's what we were taught at college to find each individual camera's
dynamic range and ISO range:
Lay three textured items, say,t-shirts, of full black, mid tone grey and full white, on the floor inside with constant diffused daylighting through windows.
Put the camera on a tripod, 100 ISO, say f:4 or 5.6.
Meter to indicated exposure on mid tone grey shirt with shutter speed.
Now take about 8 shots below and above indicated exposure.
Look at them all on the computer.
If you can only see detail in textured black at -4 and see detail in white texture at +5 and no detail outside of those, then your camera's dynamic range is 9 stops.
Now you know how far above and below indicated exposure (IE) you can go to have an image with good highlight and shadow details.

Now for ISO:
Set on tripod. ISO lowest. f:4 / 5.6 /8.0
Same diffused daylighting lighting as previous.
Meter for IE with shutter speed.
Find an object of mid tone grey, such as a small skin toned statue.
Take photos from 50 or 100 to 200, 400, 800, et cetera.
Look at photos on monitor.
Go up until you see noise.
Maybe it's showing grain at 1600 or 3200.
That's your useable ISO limit.
Mine is 1600 ISO.
Now I know my limits in all situations.