Jargon, Terminology and Semantics in the Digital Age: Being an old fart and someone who earns his living researching future computer technologies, I find it quite fascinating how much...

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Being an old fart and someone who earns his living researching future computer technologies, I find it quite fascinating how much of the terminology used in the modern world of digital photography is rooted in the language of glass plate or film-based cameras and chemical-based processing.

An example mentioned in another thread by an esteemed contributor to this forum was:

'My personal workflow includes DxO pro. I shoot RAW and "develop" my images with DxO. I never buy a lens or camera until DxO develops the modules I need. I checked, DxO supports the A77 and a vast array of lenses.'

The are many more examples to be found in camera manuals and elsewhere such as "second curtain flash," where to my knowledge digital cameras don't have curtains. At least, not the ones that I have seen.

How do the members of this erudite community feel about the use of such language and its relevance to the age of digital photography?

Any and all thoughts, serious and humorous, are welcome.

So, My Lords, Ladies, Gentlemen, and others, step stately to your horseless carriages and put the pedal to the metal!

OddJobber Loc: Portland, OR

Some digitals do have curtains. This is what happens when you exceed the synch speed limit, and leads to another phrase carried over from the film era, "Ah, sh*t."

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

>> Some digitals do have curtains. This is what happens when you exceed the synch speed limit, and leads to another phrase carried over from the film era, "Ah, sh*t."

Nice!

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Peter, in fact most of the terms used in PP by say Adobe, are age old terms as well such as masks and filters. Almost all the terms are old processes from yesteryear. :lol:
SS

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

Peterff wrote:

. . . to my knowledge digital cameras don't have curtains.

You best do a bit of homework. My Nikon D5200 = Electronically controlled vertical-travel focal-plane shutter, 1/4000-sec to 30-sec, in steps of 1/3 or 1/2 EV, synchronizes with shutter at 1/200 s or slower, per http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d5200/spec.htm

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Thank you,

I was not referring to the effect of flash synchronization but to the physical presence of shutter curtains either fabric or metal that opened and closed to time the exposure of the film/sensor to light.

On film-based SLRs flash synchronized with the opening of the shutter - 'the first curtain' gave a very different effect to flash synchronized with the closing of the shutter - the second curtain'.

So, I may have chosen a bad example. I was not aware that digital cameras have an actual physical, mechanical shutter with curtains that open and close to expose the sensor to light, and I may indeed need to do my homework. I had assumed that an electronic method would be used, and unchecked assumptions are always a bad thing. So my bad.

However my main point is to discuss whether the language used to describe photographic effects is still relevant and how people feel about that.

Thanks for the correction, I expect we all have unchecked assumptions and areas of ignorance that may be aided by such a discussion.

Cheers!

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Peterff wrote:

.

So, digital cameras may have actual physical, mechanical curtains that open and close to expose the sensor to light, I just have yet to see one.

So, I ask my question again, which is not about whether equivalent effects / techniques exist, but whether the language used to describe them is relevant and how people feel about that.

Cheers!

The shutter curtains are no longer fabric, but are Kevlar and Titanium inmost DSLRs. To view Iit just take off your lens and set your camera to "mirror up" mode and trip the shutter button. The mirror will rise and the shutter will be in plain view.
Can't remove your lens? The your camera likely is mirrorless or P&S and most of them don't have a physical shutter.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

As do most DSLRs, my D5200 has a leading curtain, which falls to open shutter, and a trailing curtain, which falls to close shutter. These curtains can be observed by removing lens and raising mirror.

Synchronizing the flash with the camera's leading edge (during long exposures of a moving subject) will fully capture subject at begin of movement, followed by streaking of moving subject.

Synchronizing the flash with the camera's following edge (during long exposures of a moving subject) will fully capture subject at end of movement, with streaking of movement leading to subject.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Thanks, I have just checked my camera and Ooops, there is that mechanical shutter, so I chose a bad example.

However I suspect there are many other terms that describe effects that do not have a direct relationship in modern deployment.

Perhaps post-processing is a more likely area than the cameras themselves.

Thanks all.

amehta Loc: Boston

Peterff wrote:

Being an old fart and someone who earns his living... (show quote)

The two ends of the process of film photography and digital photography are the same: a scene is recorded on some medium, and the result of that scene is displayed in some format. For the steps in the middle, some jargon was needed, and following the film jargon makes sense. But much of the jargon used today is a hybrid of film photography and computing. It's how language develops.

Nikonian72 Loc: Chico CA

amehta wrote:

The two ends of the process of film photography and digital photography are the same: a scene is recorded on some medium, and the result of that scene is displayed in some format. For the steps in the middle, some jargon was needed, and following the film jargon makes sense. But much of the jargon used today is a hybrid of film photography and computing. It's how language develops.

Well stated!

MW

The most persistent old terminology must center around 35mm film. Defining most other formats relative to 35mm "full frame". Assuming one can trust the Wikipedia, 35mm film originated around 1893 with Edison's Earle motion picture efforts and became a standard by 1908. In 1913 it was first used successfully for still photography with the Leica prototype.

When using 35mm film a 50mm lens results in an angle view that many think is close what the eye sees -- hence normal. (My first SLR was a Konica TC. Konica claimed 40mm to be the true "normal" but no one else seems to have bought in to this!). Thus all focal lengths shorter than 50mm are deemed wide and those longer than 50mm are called telephoto or long. 50mm is so ingrained as the boundary that it has become the base line for categorizing lens focal lengths in all the various digital formats. That is the origin of awkward terminology such as "full frame", "35mm equivalent", "crop format" etc.

Ellowynne Loc: Central New Jersey

I am a true BEGINNER and have no idea at all what you are talking about. But I will learn. I have a Sony Rebel with 2 lenses. A 'regular' and a telephoto. I take pictures. sometimes they are good. Most of the time .... oh well. You get the idea. What is the difference between raw and jpg? These are the sort of questions I have. Someday though I will be able to understand the jargon whether it's film based or digital based. Keep discussing and let me learn from the masters!

MW

RAW means un-cooked; just the digital vales from the sensor elements. To see an image from a RAW file it has to be "cooked", i.e., converted to to a format recognized by an image viewer. JPEG is the most common format. In fact when you look at an image on a monitor you are usually looking a a jpeg even if the file is some other format -- the viewing software converts it to jpeg in order to display it.

photocat Loc: Atlanta, Ga

Back to topic :)

Several years in my summer teenage darkroom class when i started teaching them about burning and dodging one young lady said "oh, photoshop" and I replied "no darkroom".

Made me smile