winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia

I refer to the pencil drawing which I recently posted on Nightski’s Photographic Critique and Analysis Section.

I put it up with the intent to demonstratively draw attention to an issue which I felt needed discussion and was in no way an attempt to present the image as a portrait of my own work.

That it was interpreted as being so was an unfortunate assumption which caused the subsequent misunderstanding.


Because I ran it past my wife who has little interest in my photography, (other than that it appears to distract me from running after other women), the fact that she immediately recognized the image as a drawing rather than a photograph caused me to confidently believe that members would react in a like manner.

That I was distracted by a road trip was the unfortunate truth and by the time that I got back to routine the damage had been done.

I wish to say that I regret having caused this uproar and offer my sincere apologies for any inconvenience or offence which I have caused.

Rob.

TheDman Loc: USA

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,

Singing Swan

Thanks for the apology. Even though I was not involved in your discussion, it's very brave and nice for you to offer the apology. Good for you.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Winter, I too am not aware of the infraction.
But to extend an olive branch, is always the right thing to do.
It should need to go no further than an apology accepted, if all parties are big enough.
We should always error on the sure of pardon.
I accept your apology.
Have a happy holidays.
SS

lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode

Seems like a disingenuous apology to me.
You are trying to misrepresent your reasons for putting the pencil drawing up.
You said in another post what your aim was.
"I posted the image to demonstrate that even when the image was made by a master artist there will always be people who want to suggest changes.
...........
I put the image up in order to highlight a potential problem and to promote discussion with regard to the value of critique coming from people who are not necessarily qualified to do so.



So by your own admission, you put the image up to discredit the critiques that people give.
And to trying to discredit the group and to trying to discredit the people giving the critiques.

I see you apologising for putting the pencil drawing up.
Any real remorse at doing so is not evident yet.

I don't see any apology, or remorse for your actions that you have carried out since you were suspended.
I don't see you retracting any of the insinuations, or accusations or nastiness that you and others levelled at certain people and the moderators yesterday.

I didn't see you make any effort whatsoever to "temper" any of jennys comments.

I don't see any acceptance or apology for trying to doctor my words to make it sound like I was saying something that I wasn't.

I don't see any willingness to accept any penance for any of those actions.

winterrose Loc: Kyneton, Victoria, Australia

You denied being a mouthpiece for Nightski. So BUTT OUT.

lathropski Loc: Boise, ID

Here we go . . .

Nightski

Winter, when you came back from your road trip, and you discovered what had transpired while you were gone, you pm'd me immediately. We shared several pm's. I think you found me to be very reasonable considering what I had been through over your little charade. After all, I received pm's like this one, that blamed me for the trouble.



It scared me. Initially, I felt as though I was the one who did something wrong. But Lighthouse reminded me and everyone else how fuzzy the rules are regarding copyright on the internet. He asked us all on that thread to wait for your explanation before we jumped to conclusions. He was the one that noticed that your image was indeed a pencil drawing, and when I asked him why he thought that, he pm'd me this explanation. I asked him to post it in the thread so everyone could see, and he posted it.



I would like to point out that the purpose of the last topic that you started was to destroy Lighthouse's credibility as a critic. I think you owe him an apology.

So then Admin deleted your topic, and sent me this PM.

From: Admin (all from/all to)
Subject: Re: winterrose
I removed the topic as per UHH rules.

After you contacted me, I explained all this to you. I asked that you post an explanation in the PC&A Section, along with an apology for the trouble, and that you apologize to Country'sMama. I explained that I had taken plenty of flack for allowing you to continue posting in the PC&A Section. I did so, because I recognized that you are quite knowledgeable in photography, and after you posted the photo of the little girl in the restaurant, I realized that you were also a talented photographer. However, your "bedside manner" leaves something to be desired, to put it mildly, and many people think we would be better off without you.

What did you do then? You ignored me for about a week. Then you decided to place a critique on Russ Elkins thread. You knew how he feels about you. You knew how he feels about the image you posted. So why did you choose him? I would guess you were pushing his buttons. Here are a couple of excerpts from the way that went.







You were antagonizing him, Winter. Instead of doing what I asked, you came in and offended one of the most valuable photographers we have helping us out in the section.

Now it is too late for me to accept your apology. You have offended far too many people since I originally asked you to just post an apology and an explanation in the PC&A Section.

Of course, you know this. The only reason you have posted an apology now, is to make me look bad when I don't accept it.

So, here is what we are going to do. You need to work things out with the people you have offended. When these people PM me, and tell me that they feel that you should be allowed back into the PC&A Section to critique, then I will accept your apology, and welcome you back. I hope you are convincing, because I for one enjoyed your edgy critiques. Here is the list.

Country'sMama - my co-manager
Russ Elkins (PalePictures)- because we value his critques
Lighthouse-because we value his critiques
CaptainC-because we value his critiques
St3v3M-because he has been our Most Valuable supporter
GrahamSmith-because he's a valuable contributor
Armadillo-because we value his critiques
BobYankle-because we value his eye for editing
Heirloom Tomato-because we value her eye for editing
Uuglypher-because he's a valuable contributor
Bmac-because he's my nemesis
MntMan-because he thinks I act like Hitler

This is your jury of 12 Winterrose. I think I have been fair. Most of the these people will probably be fairly easy to convince, but there are a few that are going to be real buggers. If these people sign off on your return, then I know that I cannot be criticized for allowing you back in.

You have only yourself to thank for this.
1) You gave up the easy route by posting without doing what I asked of you.

2) You're the one that chastised me for speaking and acting without thinking it through. Well, Winter, you should be very proud of me. I took your advice, and I spent quite a bit of time thinking this all up.:-)

Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY

What a load of dramatic hogwash. Kindly do not bandy my name about regarding a jury as if you have the power to place me, or anyone else, upon one. I had thought that involving others in your games and intrigues would have stopped after one gentleman told you unequivocally that you did not speak for him. http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-168089-10.html

Further, I thought you were aware that I will not PM you nor will I read any PM's from you, which I have posted in your created PC&A Complaint Section:


http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-168089-11.html

I am not interested in your conspiracies, pitting folks against one another, nor your histrionics. 8-)

Nightski

I am not trying speak for anyone, Bmac. I am trying to give people that have contributed much to the PC&A Forum a voice in this matter. I guess if you won't participate, then that is too bad for Winter... Maybe you could pm him and he could forward it to me, since you aren't speaking to me. :-D

And Bmac, I love that you reacted exactly the way I thought you would. Now Winter can get a little taste of what it's like to deal with you. :-D

TheDman Loc: USA

They're not all that fuzzy. Sounds like what happened falls under to the classic definition of fair use:
"In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. In other words, fair use is a defense against a claim of copyright infringement. If your use qualifies as a fair use, then it would not be considered an illegal infringement."

See more at: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/#sthash.cuZSrCgw.dpuf

Wahawk Loc: NE IA

And I don't even bother going into that sub-forum here so missed the whole thing!! Didn't like the attitudes when it was being created and doesn't sound like anything has changed! So I will continue to stay away from it!

Wahawk Loc: NE IA

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

ziggykor Loc: East Texas

Kinda interesting this whole issue. I realize that in today's world the values I was raised with are considered outdated, but they actually work.

I can say this; if I were going to make an apology, it would be made without condition or an attempt at explanation.

If I were in management, and I'd made a decision that would be it, discussion ended. If ya can't deal with it pack your bags. This issue reminds me of that wide open forum that is here in which anyone who disagrees is openly called an idiot at best.

Catering to this behavior indicates to me that your willing to swim in the cesspool with the OP that this is all about.

People often ask where an older member is, and why they have stopped sharing their thoughts; threads like this and the original it stemmed from are the cause.

As to "fair use" this particular site is not an accredited educational site, as are almost all on the web; therefore "fair use" does not apply.

Let's grow up people, this has become worse than a bunch of teenage girls arguing over a boy!